Stopping illegal immigration would mean that wages would have to rise to a level where Americans would want the jobs currently taken by illegal aliens.
It seems to me this runs counter to pretty much all of the other quotes. The only two people who should be involved in a hiring decision are the employer and the employee. Instead, Sowell wants to insert himself into the transaction and declare that it cannot go forward unless it is done on his terms. How is this any different from any other central planner?
PS: could you add LiveJournal to the list of OpenID sites in your comments?
Stormy, Sowell is saying that illegal immigration will continue until wages rise to a point where Americans start working the jobs that illegals currently work.He's not advocating policy, simply stating a fact.
The real reason there is a demand for illegal labor is because an American with no marketable skills gets welfare checks. If you drop out of high school, you can apply for benefits. So the Americans who should be mowing lawns, working in meat processing, picking crops, etc. because that's all the skills they have are instead collecting checks from the government.
Why would you bust your ass working a crappy job when the government will give you money for not working?
PS: could you add LiveJournal to the list of OpenID sites in your comments?
Apparently not.
Sowell wants to insert himself into the transaction and declare that it cannot go forward unless it is done on his terms.
No, Sowell is speaking of scarcity in the marketplace. Illegal immigration drives down the scarcity of labor, thus driving down wages. He's not involved in that, merely describing it. Stopping illegal immigration would cause a scarcity of labor, thus employers would face a choice of paying higher wages or doing without whatever it is they want/need done or doing it themselves.
No, but border control and immigration policy are two sepparate issues. I do think that anyone who wants to come work here and who can find an employer should be able to do so.
PS: I figured out the solution to the LiveJournal issue; if you pick OpenID as your site, it will let you use any valid OpenID authenticator (such as LJ), not just the main one at OpenID.org
No, but border control and immigration policy are two sepparate issues. I do think that anyone who wants to come work here and who can find an employer should be able to do so.
Sorry Stormy, but border control and immigration policy are NOT two seperate issues. When a nation refuses to control it's borders then immigration policy has no meaning. They go together like hand and glove. Also, when asked if you are an open borders policy advocate you deny it (sort of), but follow that denial with statements to the contrary. Open border advocates indeed believe that if someone wants to work here and can find a job then they should be able to do so.
I believe Stormy is trying to say that border control and immigration policy are different in the same way that the executive and legislative branches of government are different. The legislative branch is where laws are created, and is the proper venue to debate just what those policies should be. The executive branch is responsible for enforcing those laws, not creating them.
Like a baseball game, wars are not over till they are over. Wars don't run on a clock like football. No previous generation was so hopelessly unrealistic that this had to be explained to them.
Yeah, but we have to figure out a better solution than "war" for this one. The people we're currently involved with hold grudges that have been around a hell of a lot longer than we've been a country (and, for that matter, longer than the country we were a colony of was a country) and value human life a hell of a lot less than we do. They have, in economic terms, comparative advantage.
I don't know what the right answer is. But fighting on their terms is definitely the wrong answer.
Sowell, is a god. I regularly refer people to his writings, carry "Basic Economics" around the world for reference, and generally just think the man is awesomeness.
Sowell is sitting in on NR and the Hoover Institution's excellent "Uncommon Knowledge" web series this week. He's been on a couple times before, you can probably Google for the archives somewhere.
National Review also summarizes Sowell's book, Intellectuals and Society. The title of the article, The Divine Right of Intellectuals pretty much says it all in beautiful snark.
Yet another book for my reading stack. :-$
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JS-Kit/Echo comments for article at http://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2010/01/my-favorite-living-philosopher-thomas.html (12 comments)
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It seems to me this runs counter to pretty much all of the other quotes. The only two people who should be involved in a hiring decision are the employer and the employee. Instead, Sowell wants to insert himself into the transaction and declare that it cannot go forward unless it is done on his terms. How is this any different from any other central planner?
PS: could you add LiveJournal to the list of OpenID sites in your comments?
Stormy, Sowell is saying that illegal immigration will continue until wages rise to a point where Americans start working the jobs that illegals currently work.He's not advocating policy, simply stating a fact.
The real reason there is a demand for illegal labor is because an American with no marketable skills gets welfare checks. If you drop out of high school, you can apply for benefits. So the Americans who should be mowing lawns, working in meat processing, picking crops, etc. because that's all the skills they have are instead collecting checks from the government.
Why would you bust your ass working a crappy job when the government will give you money for not working?
PS: could you add LiveJournal to the list of OpenID sites in your comments?
Apparently not.
Sowell wants to insert himself into the transaction and declare that it cannot go forward unless it is done on his terms.
No, Sowell is speaking of scarcity in the marketplace. Illegal immigration drives down the scarcity of labor, thus driving down wages. He's not involved in that, merely describing it. Stopping illegal immigration would cause a scarcity of labor, thus employers would face a choice of paying higher wages or doing without whatever it is they want/need done or doing it themselves.
Are you an advocate for an open borders policy?
Are you an advocate for an open borders policy?
No, but border control and immigration policy are two sepparate issues. I do think that anyone who wants to come work here and who can find an employer should be able to do so.
PS: I figured out the solution to the LiveJournal issue; if you pick OpenID as your site, it will let you use any valid OpenID authenticator (such as LJ), not just the main one at OpenID.org
No, but border control and immigration policy are two sepparate issues. I do think that anyone who wants to come work here and who can find an employer should be able to do so.
Sorry Stormy, but border control and immigration policy are NOT two seperate issues. When a nation refuses to control it's borders then immigration policy has no meaning. They go together like hand and glove. Also, when asked if you are an open borders policy advocate you deny it (sort of), but follow that denial with statements to the contrary. Open border advocates indeed believe that if someone wants to work here and can find a job then they should be able to do so.
I believe Stormy is trying to say that border control and immigration policy are different in the same way that the executive and legislative branches of government are different. The legislative branch is where laws are created, and is the proper venue to debate just what those policies should be. The executive branch is responsible for enforcing those laws, not creating them.
Best quotes ever.
Like a baseball game, wars are not over till they are over. Wars don't run on a clock like football. No previous generation was so hopelessly unrealistic that this had to be explained to them.
Yeah, but we have to figure out a better solution than "war" for this one. The people we're currently involved with hold grudges that have been around a hell of a lot longer than we've been a country (and, for that matter, longer than the country we were a colony of was a country) and value human life a hell of a lot less than we do. They have, in economic terms, comparative advantage.
I don't know what the right answer is. But fighting on their terms is definitely the wrong answer.
Sowell, is a god. I regularly refer people to his writings, carry "Basic Economics" around the world for reference, and generally just think the man is awesomeness.
I've found Sowell's occasional article titled "Random Thoughts on the Passing Scene" to contain much wisdom of this type.
http://tv.nationalreview.com/uncommonknowledge/
Sowell is sitting in on NR and the Hoover Institution's excellent "Uncommon Knowledge" web series this week. He's been on a couple times before, you can probably Google for the archives somewhere.
National Review also summarizes Sowell's book, Intellectuals and Society. The title of the article, The Divine Right of Intellectuals pretty much says it all in beautiful snark.
Yet another book for my reading stack. :-$
Note: All avatars and any images or other media embedded in comments were hosted on the JS-Kit website and have been lost; references to haloscan comments have been partially automatically remapped, but accuracy is not guaranteed and corrections are solicited.
If you notice any problems with this page or wish to have your home page link updated, please contact John Hardin <jhardin@impsec.org>