JS-Kit/Echo comments for article at http://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2009/12/brace-yourselves-were-going-in.html (53 comments)

  Tentative mapping of comments to original article, corrections solicited.

jsid-1261159247-618085  Tim at Fri, 18 Dec 2009 18:00:47 +0000

Good luck with that, hopefully this survives.

jsid-1261167206-618098  DirtCrashr at Fri, 18 Dec 2009 20:13:26 +0000

Is that the hideous thing that also shafted Chris-Anarchangel? My sincere condolences.

jsid-1261193606-539  khbaker at Sat, 19 Dec 2009 03:33:26 +0000

Well, everthing appears to have transferred.  I have the same objections Chris had - there's no central page where I can review the most recent comments, which sucks.  But generally it looks to be working as advertised.

jsid-1261221140-919  y.lukyanov at Sat, 19 Dec 2009 11:12:20 +0000 in reply to jsid-1261193606-539

The page you want to have exists. Find your recent comments here: http://js-kit.com/moderate/

jsid-1261275829-839  khbaker at Sun, 20 Dec 2009 02:23:49 +0000 in reply to jsid-1261221140-919

Thank you!

jsid-1261201249-196  Linoge at Sat, 19 Dec 2009 05:40:49 +0000

Wow.  It seems to work, but it also seems excessively complicated.... 

I nominate this as a "test" thread... 

jsid-1261210190-486  Ed "What the" Heckman at Sat, 19 Dec 2009 08:09:50 +0000

Looks like the ability to post as a "guest" is now available.

jsid-1261233345-596  karrde at Sat, 19 Dec 2009 14:35:45 +0000

testing....cool, it allows choice of Gravatar or other icons for the "face" option.

jsid-1261237984-766  Ed "What the" Heckman at Sat, 19 Dec 2009 15:53:04 +0000

More testing.

jsid-1261238041-881  Ed "What the" Heckman at Sat, 19 Dec 2009 15:54:01 +0000

At least I don't have to reenter my name every time I want to post. And manual avatars is nice too.

jsid-1261270710-113  Bilgeman at Sun, 20 Dec 2009 00:58:30 +0000


 So many damned passwords that I don't even rememebr who I am anymore

jsid-1261275234-366  GrumpyOldFart at Sun, 20 Dec 2009 02:13:54 +0000

So many damned passwords that I don't even rememebr who I am anymore

Aw hell, I gotta be somebody? Waitaminit, that's not fair. Marky doesn't have to be anybody. Different rules, man...


jsid-1261278174-982  Unix-Jedi at Sun, 20 Dec 2009 03:02:54 +0000

This sucks works than Mark's lying mind.

jsid-1261284530-297  Ed "What the" Heckman at Sun, 20 Dec 2009 04:48:50 +0000

Looks like they still haven't figured out how to handle something as simple as quotation marks in names.  *DONT_KNOW*

jsid-1261284929-316  Ed "What the" Heckman at Sun, 20 Dec 2009 04:55:29 +0000

Do blockquotes work? Let's see:

 At least I don't have to reenter my name every time I want to post.

This previous statement was wrong. I still have to reenter my name. Geez! Don't these guys know that human beings have to use their software?

jsid-1261284949-266  Ed "What the" Heckman at Sun, 20 Dec 2009 04:55:49 +0000 in reply to jsid-1261284929-316


jsid-1261284992-848  Ed "What the" Heckman at Sun, 20 Dec 2009 04:56:32 +0000

I'm not feeling the love for Echo. So far it's worse than haloscam.

jsid-1261285083-40  Ed "What the" Heckman at Sun, 20 Dec 2009 04:58:03 +0000

Is there supposed to be a more advanced toolbar available for doing things like quoting?

jsid-1261285333-722  Ed "What the" Heckman at Sun, 20 Dec 2009 05:02:13 +0000

There are supposed to be keyboard shortcuts for the formatting, but of course they don't work on my primary browser.

jsid-1261322025-211  Ed "What the" Heckman at Sun, 20 Dec 2009 15:13:45 +0000

Another discovery: If you hover over or click on the user name or avatar, Echo displays a box with a View details link. Clicking on the link shows the last several comments by that user, along with a permalink for that particular comment. Unfortunately, that is the only way to get a permalink to a particular comment. If the comment you want to refer to is not in that list, you're SOL.

It also appears that the only way to be notified of new posts in a thread is to use an RSS feed. Right now that means I either need to add a bunch of feeds to my web browser, or use yet another piece of software instead of just getting an email.  :'(

This is an improvement?

jsid-1261326979-217  Guest (anonymous) at Sun, 20 Dec 2009 16:36:19 +0000

Did Congress have a hand in this?

jsid-1261328879-786  Unix-Jedi at Sun, 20 Dec 2009 17:07:59 +0000

This is why when everybody was bashing Haloscan I did say "it COULD BE WORSE".

It can ALWAYS be worse.

And this is. Makes us long for the easy carefree days of usable Haloscan...


Kevin: I, might, you know, have backed up your comments. Ahem. In case you want to move to a commenting system that's not made of more fail...

jsid-1261336776-83  khbaker at Sun, 20 Dec 2009 19:19:36 +0000 in reply to jsid-1261328879-786

I did.  But I've yet to see anything that will actually, you know, import those comments and link them to the proper posts.

jsid-1261338002-494  Unix-Jedi at Sun, 20 Dec 2009 19:40:02 +0000 in reply to jsid-1261336776-83

I meant, I snarfed them down here. Just in case.

And it shouldn't be hard to do that, if you've got another system you like.

Can you add email notification to the ways to follow threads from your admin access?  It implies there's more than 1 way to follow threads...

jsid-1261377378-11  khbaker at Mon, 21 Dec 2009 06:36:18 +0000 in reply to jsid-1261338002-494

Can you add email notification to the ways to follow threads from your admin access?

Yes, but why?

jsid-1261380106-494  Unix-Jedi at Mon, 21 Dec 2009 07:21:46 +0000 in reply to jsid-1261377378-11

Because it's how Haloscan used to work, and it works well, and I can't see how RSS can possibly work better?

And right now, the RSS option is the only one there?

jsid-1261380129-112  Unix-Jedi at Mon, 21 Dec 2009 07:22:09 +0000 in reply to jsid-1261380106-494

(Like so I'd know that you'd replied to that, or the thread? :)  )

jsid-1261411143-569  Unix-Jedi at Mon, 21 Dec 2009 15:59:22 +0000 in reply to jsid-1261380129-112


jsid-1261329038-501  Unix-Jedi at Sun, 20 Dec 2009 17:10:38 +0000

testing, testing

jsid-1261356661-672  Guest (anonymous) at Mon, 21 Dec 2009 00:51:01 +0000

Oh goody I can add a 30MB picture to make my comment more famous!!  But I won't. Where's the emoticon for a zippered-mouth?  This is like the comment version of the Monstosity Health Bill.

jsid-1261367853-487  Linoge at Mon, 21 Dec 2009 03:57:33 +0000

Erf.  Is there any way to make the pagination optional? 

jsid-1261369171-756  khbaker at Mon, 21 Dec 2009 04:19:31 +0000 in reply to jsid-1261367853-487

I can change the number of comments per page, but not make that number "unlimited." I've set it to 1,000 comments.

The "zippered mouth" smiley is this one:  =-X

jsid-1261518873-160  The Freeholder at Tue, 22 Dec 2009 21:54:33 +0000

I couldn't do it--it's just too non-optimal.  I went back to Blogger commenting, which means I lost all my comments.

jsid-1261522765-770  khbaker at Tue, 22 Dec 2009 22:59:25 +0000 in reply to jsid-1261518873-160

That's why I won't go to something else without KNOWING I can transfer all the comments, properly linked to the correct posts.  I have too many comments I'm just unwilling to lose.

jsid-1261523719-165  Mark Horning at Tue, 22 Dec 2009 23:15:19 +0000

Anarchangel did the same.  I still HATE any comment system that requires javascript.

jsid-1261527043-676  DJ at Wed, 23 Dec 2009 00:10:43 +0000

I think the lack of a "preview" ability is the worst, um, feature.

Am I missing something?

jsid-1261531444-938  Ed "What the" Heckman at Wed, 23 Dec 2009 01:24:04 +0000

I think you can "Post" a comment, then edit it as long as you don't leave the page.

Time to test this theory…

jsid-1261531479-769  Ed "What the" Heckman at Wed, 23 Dec 2009 01:24:39 +0000

Nope. You can't edit it. But you can delete it and start over!  :-E

jsid-1261596117-304  DJ at Wed, 23 Dec 2009 19:21:57 +0000

Delete it and start over ... now that's efficiency.

jsid-1262196036-259  GrumpyOldFart at Wed, 30 Dec 2009 18:00:36 +0000

Opera 10.10 on Windows XP SP3. So far, the only issue I'm seeing is that it will do italics or bold, but not both at once. I haven't tried underline.

Test normal.

Test Bold.

Test Italics.

Test Underlined. 

Test Bold Italics.

Test Italics Underlined.

Test Underlined Bold.

Test Bold Italics Underlined. 

jsid-1262199903-599  Ed "What the" Heckman at Wed, 30 Dec 2009 19:05:03 +0000

Testing, Mac OS 10.4.11, OmniWeb 5.10.1

Let's see if the client end during posting makes the difference.

Test Bold Italics

Test Bold Italics Underlined

It looked right in the editor. Now, will it post right?

jsid-1262207780-320  Ed "What the" Heckman at Wed, 30 Dec 2009 21:16:20 +0000

More Testing. Firefox 3.5.6 on Mac OS 10.4.11.

My previous post looks right in both browsers.

Test Bold Italics

Test Bold Italics Underline

It looks right in the editor again. Here goes…

jsid-1262207985-40  Ed "What the" Heckman at Wed, 30 Dec 2009 21:19:45 +0000

Moving on to Firefox 3.5.5 on Windows XP Pro SP 3:

My previous two posts still look right.

Testing Bold Italic

Testing Bold Italic Underline

This also looks right in the editor. Here goes...

jsid-1262208506-592  Ed "What the" Heckman at Wed, 30 Dec 2009 21:28:26 +0000

Okay, let's see if I can duplicate Gumpy's issue in Opera 10.10 on Windos XP SP3:

So far, my previous posts appear correct.

Testing Bold Italic

Testing Bold Italic Underlined

It looks correct in the entry area. Now for the acid test...

jsid-1262208720-976  Ed "What the" Heckman at Wed, 30 Dec 2009 21:32:01 +0000

Sure looks like Opera 10.10 isn't getting along with Echo very well.

How about Safari 4.0.4 on XP?

Testing Bold Italic

Testing Bold Italic Underlined

Looks good so far...

jsid-1262328422-586  Ed "What the" Heckman at Fri, 01 Jan 2010 06:47:02 +0000

Here's some more fun…  :(

Has anyone else tried the Follow options, either Mail or RSS? I've tried both. So far, I haven't received a single email about new comments. But I have gotten alerts about "new" comments via RSS… OLD comments. That's right, it routinely alerts me of messages it thinks are new, but have been posted for hours or days and which it has previously alerted me of!  >:o

Oh, and this is cool… The RSS feed identifies which individual comments are "new", but when I select that particular comment, it doesn't link to the specific comment, just taking me to the entire thread. (And it doesn't have a rolls eyes smiley!)

More and more, I'm preferring Haloscam in spite of its problems.

U-J, any luck on finding something decent for Kevin to use?

jsid-1262369321-183  Unix-Jedi at Fri, 01 Jan 2010 18:08:41 +0000 in reply to jsid-1262328422-586


I haven't looked hard. Discus, maybe.  But Kevin's been locked on Haloscan (Which would have been relatively easy to convert from), and I think he's quite locked on this.

I'd love to help, but it's like Microsoft stuff. I've stopped evangelizing and trying to convince/help people who are going to buy MS anyway, then bitch about the money, costs, downtimes...  From Kevin's tone, he's going to stick with this until they go under - no matter how bad it is. *shrug*. It's his site, his choice.

"The company has not planned to implement this.
The best point from the company 
Igor Lebedew, Official Rep, replied 4 months ago
Echo doesn't have the "preview comment" feature. We'll take your feature idea for consideration."
Riiiight. I think that tells you all you need to know, right there.

"What, why would you want something useful we used to have?  That's CRAZY. Yeah, We'll, uh, think about it."  In about 6 months they'll get pushed into it, rush out a shitty preview... *sigh*

It's sadly predictable.


 "You can use RSS for retrieving exact links for each of necessary comments (note: 'Enable Echo Live' option should be disabled). Please check the following page of our Wiki:
The link to access comments via RSS looks as follows:
links to exact comments look in the following way:
The exact feature as you described is under our consideration of our developers, possibly it will be implemented in future."

Kevin: do they have a site backup system?

Use it.  Nightly. They've got cash flow problems. Or are about to.

I'd offer to backup remotely, but guess what?  You can't easily now, since it's all JavaScripted instead of HTMLed.

jsid-1262369795-764  Ed "What the" Heckman at Fri, 01 Jan 2010 18:16:35 +0000 in reply to jsid-1262369321-183

Kevin had acceded to moving to another system here if you could find one, though I could just feel the heavy sigh in his comment. You had seen it, because you replied to it. That's why I thought you were looking for one.

"I tell you what, U-J, you figure out how to convert those saved comments into another commenting system that you like, and I'll consider dropping Echo."

jsid-1262372697-582  Unix-Jedi at Fri, 01 Jan 2010 19:04:57 +0000 in reply to jsid-1262369795-764

I know he said that, but I was taking that as sarcasm.

And I hate to keep on this topic, because it gets to be a seeming attack on Kevin, which isn't my intent.

But this system sucks. It doesn't work right - and based on the comments around the web, it was launched a year late, missing massive functionality, but with all the right "buzzwords" - hey, it integrates with Facebook! And TWITTER!

What it doesn't do is work well for a discussion system. At all.  And the execs seem to be scrambling to head off some of the worst criticism - if Kevin were to bash them on the front page, they apparently would quickly be in the comments.  Which is a nice thought and all, but maybe the time to worry about stuff was BEFORE the conversion/rollout.

But permalinks?  Preview?  Not planned/implemented?

I suspect most of us in/near SW dev have seen this a few times. I know I have. It's never a good sign. I saw it with the Infoworld Forums, among other places, where they tried to rollout a new system that was all blinged up.

There's a reason they're not giving easy permalinks, they're setting it up so it's hard/impossible to search with Google, and it's much harder to extract comments.  My experience leads me to believe it's not for Kevin's benefit. :)

jsid-1262377874-619  Ed "What the" Heckman at Fri, 01 Jan 2010 20:31:14 +0000 in reply to jsid-1262372697-582

I didn't know all that history. That's good to know. I knew echo was a piece of garbage before, but this just adds to fuel to my opinion that Echo is a disaster waiting to happen. Or more likely, a disaster in progress.

I don't want to seem like I'm bashing Kevin because I definitely understand his concerns, and they are legitimate. But I feel no such compunction about bashing Echo because it harms Kevin and the rest of us here. I'd like to see him rescue his comments while it's still reasonably possible.

jsid-1262527724-968  Ed "What the" Heckman at Sun, 03 Jan 2010 14:08:44 +0000

That's it! After trying RSS notifications for about a week, I'm finally giving up on getting any viable notifications of new messages from Echo. I think there have been about 3 valid notifications, dozens of false alarms, and 2 instances of "Unresponsive" requiring manual intervention.

More than anything else, these problems tell me that Echo has some serious stability problems in its core code. It would not surprise me in the least to hear reports of Echo losing comments.

jsid-1262540905-385  Unix-Jedi at Sun, 03 Jan 2010 17:48:25 +0000 in reply to jsid-1262527724-968

Yep. I've not gotten a single email followup, either.

jsid-1262541009-367  Unix-Jedi at Sun, 03 Jan 2010 17:50:09 +0000 in reply to jsid-1262527724-968

Actually, if you want to see something interesting....

They farmed out *Their own support forums*.

That's hardly a resounding endorsement of their own products.

 Note: All avatars and any images or other media embedded in comments were hosted on the JS-Kit website and have been lost; references to haloscan comments have been partially automatically remapped, but accuracy is not guaranteed and corrections are solicited.
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