JS-Kit/Echo comments for article at http://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2009/11/warning-this-blog-might-be-harmful-to.html (37 comments)

  Tentative mapping of comments to original article, corrections solicited.

jsid-1257387759-614938  geekWithA.45 at Thu, 05 Nov 2009 02:22:39 +0000

Somehow, with the likes of Markadelphia and this jury running around, the promise of being tried by a jury of my so called peers seems less like a protection against such foolishness, and more like a threat.

jsid-1257392789-614940  Ken at Thu, 05 Nov 2009 03:46:29 +0000

Joyce Foundation is probably salivating.

jsid-1257393864-614942  pascal at Thu, 05 Nov 2009 04:04:24 +0000

Kevin, I find it hard to fault you for your dripping sarcasm.

However, I fear sarcasm is totally useless at this point in our culture's advanced state of decline. That the court did not throw out the case to begin with is a crime against reason. In a just world, a booth of bats would have been outside the courtroom awaiting the emergence of the eight jurors. In our shameless world filled with totally brazen attorneys and their plaintifs, only irony, bluntly applied, has any chance at restoring reason.

jsid-1257394335-614943  perlhaqr at Thu, 05 Nov 2009 04:12:15 +0000

I really hate voir dire.

jsid-1257395218-614944  geekWithA.45 at Thu, 05 Nov 2009 04:26:58 +0000

voir dire. French for Jury stackin'


jsid-1257397543-614946  julie at Thu, 05 Nov 2009 05:05:43 +0000

another example that the world has gone well and truely mad ...

jsid-1257401779-614948  Sarah at Thu, 05 Nov 2009 06:16:19 +0000

Anyone remember the first season episode of The Simpsons where an unemployed Homer becomes a safety nut and convinces the Springfield city council to put warning signs on everything in sight? Funny how art imitates life sometimes.

jsid-1257401833-614949  Sarah at Thu, 05 Nov 2009 06:17:13 +0000

Er, rather, how life imitates art.

(No, you had it right the first time! [*dripping sarcasm*] - Ed.)

jsid-1257409059-614953  Black Ice at Thu, 05 Nov 2009 08:17:39 +0000

A few years ago, a truck driver parked off the road in Texas to take his required break. He was THIRTY FEET off the traveled portion of the road.

A young woman and her friend had been partying all night and were on their way home. The youngster fell asleep at the wheel(and admitted to such), ran into the back of the truck, and her friend died in the resulting wreck.

She sued. Verdict: Eighteen million dollars to an irresponsible idiot who sees no problem in profiting from the death of her friend, never mind that she killed said friend through her own negligence.

This country needs an enema.

jsid-1257409953-614954  ravenshrike at Thu, 05 Nov 2009 08:32:33 +0000

Um...shouldn't they have sued the baseball maker? Cause how the ball got it's velocity is really irrelevant. I mean, a major league pitcher could probably kill somebody with a baseball if they hit somebody in the head too.

jsid-1257412334-614955  NinjaViking at Thu, 05 Nov 2009 09:12:14 +0000

This is why we can't have nice things.

jsid-1257422398-614956  Heartless Libertarian at Thu, 05 Nov 2009 11:59:58 +0000

All of this ignores the fact that if the kid was a better pitcher, he'd still be alive, because the batter wouldn't have made solide contact.

It's his own lack of skill that killed him.

jsid-1257426811-614958  Stuart_the_Viking at Thu, 05 Nov 2009 13:13:31 +0000

I have long said that I have given up on the human race and now root for the asteroid that the crazy scientists have been telling us for years will come and wipe us out. I hope it gets here before we manage to export human stupidity to the rest of the universe.

And I thought the whole "too hot coffee/drive through window" lawsuit was stupid. I miss getting hot coffee at a resturant.



jsid-1257431079-614962  Steve_in_CA at Thu, 05 Nov 2009 14:24:39 +0000

I think they should make all pitchers wear full protective gear: helmets, face guards, chestpadding. Then, the could go after the entire infield because they are not really that much farther away. Then they could change the rules so that you don't touch the runner with the ball, because it is too hard and might bruise the runner, maybe two hand tag? Then make the ball bigger and softer, maybe force the runner to the ground, maybe the runner should carry the ball so no one can hurt them with it. Also the runner could turn an ankle making those sharp turns at the bases, so get rid of the bases; the runner could just run to the outfield wall and the would be a touch...um home run. Wait? we we talking about football, right?

jsid-1257433647-614965  Sarah at Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:07:27 +0000

It's ironic that the cruel and vicious Butcher in Henry VI called for the death of all lawyers in order to wreak chaos in the land. Seems lawyers were an actual means to order and justice at one time. If Shakespeare were alive and working today, I wonder what sort of character would utter that line.

jsid-1257434415-614966  Mastiff at Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:20:15 +0000

My father has noted that a key flaw in American jurisprudence is that any case of damage must be the fault of someone. There is no concept of freak accident or act of God.

Thus, in the case of this boy's death, the court must assign fault to someone—either the pitcher, the batter, the ball manufacturer, or the bat manufacturer. In other words, unless the court decides that the pitcher was responsible for his own death, somebody is going to have to pay. The idea that none of them are at fault, and this is simply a random tragedy, has been excluded from the law.

This is the real problem, that leads to the idiocies noted by the other commenters.

jsid-1257435120-614970  Patrick McWilliams at Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:32:00 +0000

Switzerland has banned baseball bats, not to prevent sports injuries, but to preclude their use as weapons.
I have seen references on the internet to youth in Ulster and in England carrying baseball bats. Surprised to see the game is so popular there. I am sure the maker of the bat is going to appeal this bizarre ruling. Recalling the game of baseball from my own distant youth, the "ping" of an aluminum bat just doesn't sound right. Though, in this case, I'm sure a wooden bat would have inflicted the same damages.

jsid-1257435988-614971  Kevin Baker at Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:46:28 +0000

Switzerland? The country of "a select-fire assault rifle in every home"? That Switzerland?

That's bizarre! Gotta link?

jsid-1257436304-614972  Markadelphia at Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:51:44 +0000

Since my name came up right away, I thought I would chime in and say, for the record, that I agree with Kevin on this one. It's absolutely ludicrous. A case like this is also detrimental because it colors cases of actual wrongdoing as being frivolous as well.

It's also ludicrous to say that all "leftists" think or feel this way. Outgroup bias again and another example of a story made to stoke the fires of right wing rage. Isn't about time for a "War on Christmas" story?

jsid-1257437697-614977  Unix-Jedi at Thu, 05 Nov 2009 16:14:57 +0000

Since my name came up right away

Amazing, isn't it?

It's absolutely ludicrous.

Yet it would be trivial to demonstrate that you've demanded very analogous redistribution here over other issues, hence, the comparison to you.

It's also ludicrous to say that all "leftists" think or feel this way.

It's the system, Ralph. The one where you talk about "evil capitalists" and demonize profits and insist that it's "unfair" that some people have more than others, regardless of the comparison between the planning and performance of the two groups.

It's exactly the mindset you cultivate, and I'm glad we finally found something so far outside the pale that even you realize the failure.

jsid-1257439913-614981  Rev Atman at Thu, 05 Nov 2009 16:51:53 +0000

My boss grew up in Miles City. This was a huge to-do.

The basic issue isn't about bats themselves. It's about aluminum bats. A lot of leagues use aluminum bats because balls fly off the bat at a much greater velocity. It increases the wow factor for both the players and the fans. I guess if all at-bats resulted in in-field hits and few homers then it's not as exciting.

There are a lot of leagues that have already banned aluminum bats because the danger involved is much higher than a regular wooden bat. Even before this incident happened there was quite a bit of controversy about the "dangers" of aluminum bats. At the age these kids are, their reflexes aren't fast enough to deal with a baseball that's connected with an aluminum bat.

If memory serves, folks had asked Miles City to stop using aluminum bats and they've adamantly refused. In that league, some teams will not play against them for this reason.

If anyone is to blame in this sad story, it's Miles City for stubbornly refusing to ban aluminum bats.

It would be remotely akin to using rubber bullets instead of paint ball pellets.

Throwing out the safety/liability factor for a moment, speaking as a baseball purist I think aluminum bats should be banned along with astroturf and the designated hitter. And night games. And instant replays. And chewing bubblegum instead of tobacco.

jsid-1257440013-614982  Stuart_the_Viking at Thu, 05 Nov 2009 16:53:33 +0000


"A case like this is also detrimental because it colors cases of actual wrongdoing as being frivolous as well."

I think that this is a fine example of the differance in thinking between a liberal and a conservative. I would have said it as:

A case like this is detrimental because it lends creedance to other frivolous lawsuits.

Don't take this as a bag, it is just an observation. I think liberals and conservative types actually process thoughts differantly, much like the differance between the way that men and women process thougths. It might explain why it is so hard to understand the point of view of the other (and why the other viewpoint seems bat shit crazy sometimes).

Oh, and it also points out that sometimes we can agree.


jsid-1257441289-614986  Unix-Jedi at Thu, 05 Nov 2009 17:14:49 +0000

Rev Atman:

While it's always interesting to see what some of the bigger picture is, that's not what the jury verdict indicates.

It would indicate that if only a sticker had been applied to the bat, that there would have been no injury, and thus no responsibility would accrue.

I most whole heartedly agree with you about the bats, and the DH for that matter. But all of that aside, the blame was laid on the maker of a bat - a bat that performed exactly as designed, as per specifications, and without defect.

The ramifications of this for guns, as someone else has noted, plus cars, plus knives, plus....

jsid-1257441853-614987  Mark D at Thu, 05 Nov 2009 17:24:13 +0000

The thing is that in many cases leagues went to aluminum bats because they don't break, sending hard, heavy and often sharp hunks of wood flying around the infield. Had the league made the switch to wooden bats and then had a kid been killed by the flying barrel of a bat would THAT bat maker have been sued?

jsid-1257443003-614988  Ed "What the" Heckman at Thu, 05 Nov 2009 17:43:23 +0000

The point that the bat performed as designed actually goes further than has been mentioned so far. These bats are not designed to meet a manufacturer's whim, they are designed to meet official standards. If the bat performed better or worse than the standard, then the bat is not allowed to be used for league play. Therefore, the ultimate responsibility for how the bat performs (not this accident) lies with the body which sets these standards.

jsid-1257444349-614990  Steve_in_CA at Thu, 05 Nov 2009 18:05:49 +0000

This deep pocket nonsense must stop. It is affecting all areas of our lives, curtailing activities that are healthful and educational. It is a fact of life that some children get hurt, and yes killed, accidentally in the course of being a child. The fact that some one always has to pay is the result of the nanny state so many of us have come to embrace. The real fact is that some one ALWAYS pays and HE is US.

jsid-1257449117-615007  Stuart_the_Viking at Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:25:17 +0000

Can I please point out that this was an 18 year old guy. This story is NOT about a child. It is about an adult. If he or anyone else out there on the field that day didn't know that when baseballs are hit by bats they are going really fast and can hurt you, then they are too retarded to be allowed to play baseball.

The lawsuit suggests that a warning sticker should have been on the bat stating the obvious fact that baseballs hit by a bat go really fast and can hurt you. That said sticker WOULD NOT HAVE DONE ANYTHING. The batter wouldn't have seen the sticker and chosen a "less dangerous" bat. The pitcher (the dead guy) would have been too far away to read said sticker, but if he somehow had super vision or something and was able to read the sticker, he wouldn't have said "no way, I aint pitching to the guy with the killer bat".

This is all a case of stupid americans who think stupid americans should be entitled to money from the "big bad corporation" because of a freak accident.

It saddens me that the jury in this case could possibly be thought of as a jury of my peers. It saddens me that the intelegence of the average American has eroded to the point where this jury could possibly be thought of as being comprised of "Average Americans".

I'm rooting for the asteroid!


jsid-1257449209-615008  Rev Atman at Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:26:49 +0000


Oh, I agree. I wasn't trying to justify the judgment in this case at all, and I agree that the whole deep pockets issue is more than problematic. I think the concept that a little sticker or lack thereof somehow gives or absolves one of responsibility is silly. I guess I was trying to place the blame on the Miles City league. Since concern about aluminum bats was brought up before this happened.

Mark D: I think the likely hood of a little leager busting a bat is pretty small. but you do have a good point. I think busted flying bats is more par for the course and probably more acceptable. I guess maybe that baseball fans have to get used to that particular risk.. high velocity baseballs from aluminum bats.

jsid-1257450581-615014  Ed "What the" Heckman at Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:49:41 +0000

"Can I please point out that this was an 18 year old guy. This story is NOT about a child. It is about an adult."

Why did I miss this detail until you pointed it out? I was thinking 12 or 13 year old for some reason.

jsid-1257456818-615036  Some Dude at Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:33:38 +0000

It's time to repeal the seventh amendment.

jsid-1257458898-615040  Ed "What the" Heckman at Thu, 05 Nov 2009 22:08:18 +0000

"It's time to repeal the seventh amendment."

Hmmm… Let's see… How can I put this delicately?


Juries are the where The People's enforcement of The Constitution actually has legal force.

jsid-1257466977-615062  The Quiet Man at Fri, 06 Nov 2009 00:22:57 +0000

This whole thing stinks to high heaven. First, this jury was pulled from the people of MONTANA...supposedly one of the last bastions of free-thinking common sense Americans left. Well, I guess I should scratch Montana off of the short list of acceptable places to relocate to. The infestation of statists has obviously reached a tipping point there which is a cryin' shame!

Second, the idea that this is the fault of the bat (or the ball, or anything else) is just ludicrous. And in response to the good Reverend's assertions that the blame really belongs to the city...well, read the preceeding paragraph. Metal bats are not some new-fangled phenomena - they've been around for about 30 years! That's right, by the time I was in high school aluminum bats were all that were allowed for fear of a wooden bat breaking and the splinters harming someone. You may have guessed that aluminum bats were deemed to be LESS DANGEROUS than wooden bats and you would be absolutely correct! In fact, I can't remember the last time I saw a wooden bat used in a game other than in the major leagues. Little league, high school, college, and minor leagues ALL use metal bats!

As for the mother of the dearly departed I am truly sorry for her loss. I can't even imagine her grief to lose a son at so early an age. Having said that though, winning a civil suit and a bunch of money is not going to bring her child back from the grave and I truely hope it doesn't actually make her feel better. Perhaps she can lead the charge to outlaw baseball altogether so that no other mother will ever have to feel her pain. No, that sounds ridiculous...doesn't it?!?

In the end, Mrs. Patch and the morons of the jury need to realize that sometimes bad things happen to good people for no real reason at all and through no fault of anyone or anything. Or the short version - "shit happens".

jsid-1257477735-615092  GrumpyOldFart at Fri, 06 Nov 2009 03:22:15 +0000

Since my name came up right away, I thought I would chime in and say, for the record, that I agree with Kevin on this one. It's absolutely ludicrous. A case like this is also detrimental because it colors cases of actual wrongdoing as being frivolous as well.

It's also ludicrous to say that all "leftists" think or feel this way. Outgroup bias again...

I'm glad you do agree with Kevin on this one, but that makes your ideology that much more confusing. You see, the admittedly flawed generalization "all leftists feel this way" (although no more flawed than generalizations always are by their very nature) is not "outgroup bias". It is the logical progression of a thought process that begins with "all leftists support the power structure that has been refusing to allow tort reform as part of healthcare reform all summer, and still insist that their plan, the very one that refuses tort reform, is the one we must rely on."

Being a teacher, you should already know that the easy answer, the one that doesn't require you to actually think, is almost never the correct one.

jsid-1257480157-615106  GrumpyOldFart at Fri, 06 Nov 2009 04:02:37 +0000

Or maybe it's a thought process that begins, "leftists are supporters of the power structure that forced the Governor of Alaska to choose between leaving office or spending $500,000+ of her own money (that she probably didn't really have at the time) to defend against frivolous lawsuits and investigations instigated by that power structure" (since Alaska state law doesn't allow the Governor to use state funds or to raise money from the public for that purpose while in office.)

Seems like I haven't heard a peep from you or anyone else on the left decrying that particular use of lawyers as area-effect weapons.

jsid-1257525443-615140  Last in line at Fri, 06 Nov 2009 16:37:23 +0000

Speaking as one who plays a ton of showpitch softball, the debate over bats rages strongly in the big-time slowpitch softball circles (of which I'm not a part of...too big of a circus that contains the largest, most fragile egos you have ever seen in your life). Too many folks remove the endcaps of their slowpitch softball bats and shave the walls of the bat so they flex more when contacting the ball, thus increasing the speed of the ball off the bat...bats that already flex a ton right out of the wrapper. Pitchers have been drilled and even infielders barely have time to react to the ball sometimes. It is the opinion of some that the bat manufacturers should ensure that their endcaps cannot be removed. Some associations already have a list of banned bats and we are all going to have to use a softer softball next year...which I'm ok with. Only us weightlifters will be hitting them over the fence next year. My prediction is that you will see a lawsuit soon against a person due to the alteration of the bat when a pitcher gets killed in upper level softball. Lots of pitchers already wear facemasks. Not in out leagues thankully where we don't take it as seriously as some...I always remind my team not to take themselves too seriously because we are all swinging a juiced up bat at a really large ball that is being lobbed to us and if any of us were all that special we would be playing baseball.

jsid-1257531634-615152  Stuart_the_Viking at Fri, 06 Nov 2009 18:20:34 +0000

Last in line: Percisely why I stopped playing softball (I played in a coupld slow-pitch recreational leagues). When I played, I always used a wooden bat. It was a nice heavy one and I could really smack the ball hard with it. I once had a chance to try one of the high-end ceramic bats and WOW... but I stuck with my wooden bat because I liked it and was playing for the enjoyment of the game (oh and the huge price tag).

I was actually kicked off of one team because I refused to use an aluminum bat and I stayed with a clasic slow-pitch softball batting stance instead of the baseball/fast-pitch batting stance that our supposed "elite" coach thought was better. For those who don't know, there is a huge differance between the two. Needless to say, I didn't mind so much because it wasn't fun anymore with the crappy attitude of the coaching staff. I think they got recreational league confused with the-world-might-end-if-we-don't-crush-Joes-bar-into-the-dirt league.


jsid-1260119056-617324  Baseball Bats at Sun, 06 Dec 2009 17:04:16 +0000

This information was great, thank you for taking the time to write it. I have already bookmarked this page so I can come back for more.

(This comment has been edited. Sorry, you don't get to advertise in my comments, at least not without my permission. - Ed.)

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