JS-Kit/Echo comments for article at http://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2009/11/unions-are-anachronism.html (18 comments)

  Tentative mapping of comments to original article, corrections solicited.

jsid-1257879502-615408  Britt at Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:58:22 +0000

If unions were independent, that would be one thing. With the government behind them, it's a whole different story.

Never throw down the "raise or strike" card in a recession. When times are good, the cost of breaking a new staff isn't worth slowing production. When times are bad, and costs need to be cut, and the union won't let you, then the union becomes an obstacle to the continued survival of the company.

You can always tell a union shop from a non-union one. The non-union ones tend to be cleaner and have much better staff.

jsid-1257880511-615411  Unix-Jedi at Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:15:11 +0000

That's actually not a good video. Reason really doesn't do very good with video at making their point.

They're right, it's government being used as a weapon, but they don't mention that FedEx has backed UPS on getting out from under it's designation under the NRLA.

When that failed, it only makes sense for UPS to try and get FedEx under the same handicapping that they're under.

Note to Ralph: See, the government doesn't have to own the company in order to control it.


It's also indicative of where the effort and impetus go when you're fighting over who gets regulated as what, rather than into more efficient companies and services.

jsid-1257880520-615412  David, Chandler, AZ at Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:15:20 +0000

The strikes pending at Fry's and Safeway are particularly bad because the union members are not being allowed a new strike vote. The union says they already voted back in July(IIRC). In addition the main point of contention seems to be future employees being required to pay part of their health package. $5 for singles, $15 per family. Per week. And this does not apply to current employees.

For my part if the union strikes I plan to stop at Fry's everyday during the strike and buy something. Oh and my, out of work, son has already applied.

Bashas has already closed stores in the area. This seems like a really bad time to strike.

jsid-1257880938-615413  Myles at Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:22:18 +0000

One of the Fry's stores in Surprise(Northwest Phoenix Suburb) already has signs up asking for cashiers, stockboys, deli workers, etc. I asked the girl at the customer service counter if they had been getting a lot of applications and she just laughed and pointed to a stack of papers on a shelf behind the counter. I predict UFCW is going to back down... or a lot of their people are going to go into work regardless.
Last night on the local news they showed Fry's workers protesting the strike in front of the UFCW hall.

jsid-1257882051-615414  DJ at Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:40:51 +0000

Not that it's important, but what is "Fry's", anyway?

jsid-1257883134-615415  Myles at Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:58:54 +0000

A grocery store chain.

jsid-1257883942-615416  Kevin Baker at Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:12:22 +0000

It's a subsidiary of Kroger's.

jsid-1257885457-615424  DJ at Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:37:37 +0000

Thanks. Some grocery store chains are local, some are regional, and some are national. That's one I'd never heard of.

Just curious ...

jsid-1257885648-615425  rocinante at Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:40:48 +0000

Oh, suh-nap! This post is going to bring on a weapons-grade-crazy post of 99-44/100% fact-free, full-metal-jacket-illogic from You-know-who-adelphia in 5, 4, 3, 2....

jsid-1257886943-615429  Unix-Jedi at Tue, 10 Nov 2009 21:02:23 +0000


I don't think so.

I think Markadelphia is probably a mite perturbed that Obama managed to cock-up ANOTHER international appearance stupidly.

Additionally.. What would he complain about? Well, there is the usual ignorance he could portray about the Reason video and what it says about unions, but here's a case where you've got government regulation and [attempting to] buy favor via the government.

Although I admit I could be wrong - mainly by an analog of Heisenberg's Principal - I think he'll be gone for a week or so.

Long enough for him to forget all his points were roundly rebutted, and to come back new and refreshed and present them and their analogs again.

jsid-1257890785-615437  El Capitan at Tue, 10 Nov 2009 22:06:25 +0000

Is there more than one chain called Fry's? Here in Texas, they're a big-box electronics retailer.

jsid-1257891272-615438  Mark at Tue, 10 Nov 2009 22:14:32 +0000

El Capitan, you would be correct.
Fry's is also that geek wonderland big box electronics superstore. Even uses the same style lettering for it's sign.

I enlisted from Phoenix, after attending UTI didn't work out like I thought it would.

jsid-1257891695-615439  Russell at Tue, 10 Nov 2009 22:21:35 +0000

The box running the Marxy script needs to be rebooted.

jsid-1257898610-615453  Bilgeman at Wed, 11 Nov 2009 00:16:50 +0000

"So United Food and Commercial Workers Local 99, which represents 15,000 Fry's and 9,000 Safeway grocery store workers is threatening a strike if an "acceptable offer" is not presented by Friday."

Ahhhhh, me lads, it may very well be the case that UFCW 99 is in bed with Safeway and Fry's management.

Wouldn't it be just the ticket for a strike to happen in a recession when you, as a heap big moneybags grocery businessman, wanted to trim the payroll...and of the highest-paid workers with the most union seniority?

See, fellas, usually the union takes it's cut an equal amount from the greenest newbie pollywog to the most weather-beaten and tattooed old salt aboard, so the Union bosses could really give a rat's ass which of the individual jobholders in the bargaining unit get tossed overboard, since they'll make their bank regardless.

In fact, the union prefers having the young and dumb in the unit, since they aren't as likely to be able to call "double bullshit" when the union tells them how lucky they are to have a job.

I cast loose from the Seafarers two years ago and have doubled my day rate by doing so, cut my voyages from 4 months at sea average to 28 days, and the ship I'm on was built and launched in 2008.
My last union ship was built and launched in 1973.

I HATE having to make old junk work.

jsid-1257900831-615457  Kresh at Wed, 11 Nov 2009 00:53:51 +0000

We have Fry's Electronics AND Fry's Food Stores here in Phoenix.

Verra confuhsing sommertimes.

jsid-1257946597-615496  Bram at Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:36:37 +0000

I used both UPS and Fed-Ex on a massive commercial scale. UPS sucks.

Fed-Ex rates are generally lower. More importantly to me, their invoices and systems are dramaticly better.

I could use take a Fed-Ex bill and quickly determine which department to charge for which deliveries. A UPS commercial invoice is a maze of sur-charges, fuel charges, and general nonsense.

jsid-1257959808-615514  Dean at Wed, 11 Nov 2009 17:16:48 +0000

I used to work here at the Arizona Kroger warehouse as part of the small non-union force. It's unionized and there's a lot of stories I could tell but it'd take too long.

Kroger has a dozen or more subsidiaries: Kroger (midwest), Ralph's (CA), King Soopers (CO), City Market (?), Dillons (?), Smith's (UT, NV, ID, others), Fry's (Az), QFC (?), Baker's (?), Owens (?), JayC Food Stores (?), Hilander (?), Gerbes (?), Pay Less Super Markets (?) Scott's (?), Food4Less (Az, Nv, Ca), Foods Co (?), Fred Meyer (Pacific NW), the "Marketplace" stores (Fry's Marketplace, Smith's Marketplace, Kroger Marketplace, Dillon's Marketplace (these are all photocopies of the Fred Meyer Concept), 5 convenience store chains, and 4 Jewelery chains.

They're huge.

jsid-1257982926-615538  azllibertarian at Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:42:06 +0000

FWIW, after the old man who ran the Fry's grocery chain sold out to Kroger, he gave a portion of the proceeds to each of his sons. They created the Fry's Electronics chain, using a similar logo. [Source.]

 Note: All avatars and any images or other media embedded in comments were hosted on the JS-Kit website and have been lost; references to haloscan comments have been partially automatically remapped, but accuracy is not guaranteed and corrections are solicited.
 If you notice any problems with this page or wish to have your home page link updated, please contact John Hardin <jhardin@impsec.org>