JS-Kit/Echo comments for article at http://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2009/10/for-this-we-should-be-thankful.html (21 comments)

  Tentative mapping of comments to original article, corrections solicited.

jsid-1256570950-614186  Matt at Mon, 26 Oct 2009 15:29:10 +0000

And the best part is they think this will stop criminals from getting guns!

jsid-1256571464-614187  Ed "What the" Heckman at Mon, 26 Oct 2009 15:37:44 +0000

I didn't get AIDS when they raped me this time! It's a good day!

jsid-1256572224-614190  Bilgeman at Mon, 26 Oct 2009 15:50:24 +0000

After I asked him again nicely, The helpful Park Ranger said I would kindly be permitted to starve to death in the National Forest, so long as I agreed to wear only biodegradable clothing.

jsid-1256579996-614202  perlhaqr at Mon, 26 Oct 2009 17:59:56 +0000

I think I could make a gun out of raw materials faster than that.

jsid-1256582821-614210  Splodge Of Doom at Mon, 26 Oct 2009 18:47:01 +0000

When I got my FAC here in England, after a bunch of paperwork, the wait to become a full gun club member and a wait of a few months to process it, I thought "That wasn't so hard. What's all the fuss about?"

Then I compare my experiences with you yanks...


jsid-1256584085-614211  DJ at Mon, 26 Oct 2009 19:08:05 +0000

It should take longer to drive to the gun store and drive home with a gun than it takes to buy a gun once there. Here, it does so several times over; the best gun store around is a 20 mile drive each way.

jsid-1256585458-614213  Ed "What the" Heckman at Mon, 26 Oct 2009 19:30:58 +0000

"It should take longer to drive to the gun store and drive home with a gun than it takes to buy a gun once there."

I disagree. Have you forgotten about time spent fondling a large variety of guns?


jsid-1256594178-614224  DJ at Mon, 26 Oct 2009 21:56:18 +0000

Fondling is optional, Ed.

jsid-1256597162-614226  Ed "What the" Heckman at Mon, 26 Oct 2009 22:46:02 +0000

It is? That's news to me.


jsid-1256602315-614229  DJ at Tue, 27 Oct 2009 00:11:55 +0000

Yup. You don't have to fondle to buy, and you don't have to buy to fondle. Want to is optional, both ways.

jsid-1256603439-614232  Lyle at Tue, 27 Oct 2009 00:30:39 +0000

Uh, you shouldn't have to drive to a "gun store" there, Little Grasshopper. When I was a kid, most regular hardware stores sold guns. That was before GCA '68, when buying a gun was the same as buying a hammer. You could mail order them too. Remember? And when my grandparents were newlyweds, they could have ordered a Thompson submachinegun through the mail. For 200 bucks plus shipping. Total.

"I was quite pleased with this experience" That's like a black man saying he was "quite pleased" with not being beaten and thrown out of the whites only restaurant, but instead was allowed to eat in the coal shed out back after he washed the toilets. Yes, quite pleased. Maybe they'd even let him lick their boots without kicking him in the face. That might be a pleasant surprise.

No. When I have to fill out a 4473, produce identification, and wait for the instant background check, I am seething at the indignity of it. I don;t care if it takes only a couple minutes. Petty insults that don't rob you of much valuable time are still petty insults.

jsid-1256608865-614246  DJ at Tue, 27 Oct 2009 02:01:05 +0000

"When I have to fill out a 4473, produce identification, and wait for the instant background check, I am seething at the indignity of it. I don;t care if it takes only a couple minutes. Petty insults that don't rob you of much valuable time are still petty insults."

Agreed, but it isn't the preposterous experience that Kevin's post describes.


jsid-1256621450-614254  Phil B at Tue, 27 Oct 2009 05:30:50 +0000

I agree with Splodge of Doom - you really, really don't want to know the full, petty minded, make-it-up-as-you-go-along way the British Police force process and harass firearms certificate holders. And following the Dunblane Incident in 1997 when all handguns were banned and even more restrictions were put on the Law abiding reducing the number of rifle and shotgun holders, after 12 years THIS is the result.


As Kevin says "How's that working out for you?"

jsid-1256639981-614260  Linoge at Tue, 27 Oct 2009 10:39:41 +0000

Well, I know what I am thankful for - that bug-arsed idiocy like what she just described was first tested over there and not here. You know a country is well and lost when its citizens consider a relatively easy (but not perfect) interaction with that country's governmental bureaucracy to be a pleasant experience... but, then again, how many of us harbored similar thoughts after emerging relatively unscathed from our local DMVs?

jsid-1256717663-614348  Sendarius at Wed, 28 Oct 2009 08:14:23 +0000

Surprisingly the "pleased with the experience" attitude about firearms & licensing is prevalent amongst shooters here in Oz.

Whenever the subject is raised, most of the shooters I speak to are quite vocal about their conviction that it DOES stop criminals getting guns, and they actually WANT it to be the way it is. Why the ever increasing number of news reports concerning illegally possessed firearms doesn't register with them is a mystery to me.

Even when I point out the facts associated with the folly of their thought processes, "Yes, but it could be worse" is a favourite rebuttal.

Of course the US experience is little better - a difference in degree rather than kind. When everything works it is one form (4473), a fast online background check, and probably a waiting period in the US versus several forms, a slow manual background check, and a longer waiting period in Oz.

We cannot concealed carry, and there are onerous restrictions, but at least we don't have any region of the country where firearms ownership is prohibited.

jsid-1256722338-614350  julie at Wed, 28 Oct 2009 09:32:18 +0000

Just found this post and have read all the comments and have a few more thoughts which I'ld like to share.

I would be more pleased if I did't have to jump through hoops to own a firearm.

I would love to live in a country where I could carry if I wanted to. Where I could wander down to the local department store and buy ammo.

I certainly don't believe that firearm laws and regulations do anything more than make life difficult for the law-abiding. I do not believe that we are safer because of the laws we have in this country.

I've said in previous posts that you only have to jump through these hoops to own a firearm legally - owing one illegally only takes a bit more money.

However, compared to my previous experiences with getting my firearms licence and firearms on that licence this was a pleasant experience. (I have blogged a bit about these experiences also).

Cops went outside of the system to assist and make it possible - for that I was (am) thankful.

I would encourage everyone to fight against firearm restrictions and limitations to their freedom.

However, I am not sure if the limitations we have here in Australia can be reversed (firearm restrictions have been in place here since the 1930s) and I'm not willing to stand up against the system at this point in time.

I certainly respect those who are willing to work outside of the system but fear that the cost that they will end up paying will be more than the benefit derived.

jsid-1256733963-614353  Kevin Baker at Wed, 28 Oct 2009 12:46:03 +0000

Julie, no insult towards you was intended. You're stuck with what you have, and I can see your point that this time things went well (comparitively). Honestly, though, it's probably LESS expensive to illegally acquire a handgun there than to get one legally. And a lot less hassel.

jsid-1256736038-614355  Sendarius at Wed, 28 Oct 2009 13:20:38 +0000

Julie's experience WAS good when compared to what it might have been if all concerned had stuck slavishly to the regulations regarding the minimum they MUST do.

Interestingly, there has been a change to the way this will be handled here in Western Australia in the future. The new process is:

1) Work out what you want (make, model, serial umber etc)
2) If what you want meets the restrictions regarding capacity, calibre, barrel length etc, complete the forms online, and print them
3) go to the POST OFFICE to lodge the application and pay the fee
4) Post Office sends the forms to wherever is appropriate
5) once approved by whatever bureaucrat is appropriate, the shooter gets new license in the mail with new firearm added
6) shooter collects firearm on strength of it being already on license.

Easier? No, all of the responsibility of ensuring that the forms are completed correctly now falls on the applicant, and those without access to a computer are out of luck.
Quicker? No, the process will likely take up to six weeks for even simple transactions that currently take a day.
Cheaper? No, the fee goes up to $60 from $28.


I call it tacit admission that firearm licensing is NOT A PUBLIC SAFETY ISSUE, but a political/bureaucratic function.

jsid-1256738549-614360  julie at Wed, 28 Oct 2009 14:02:29 +0000

Kevin, no offence was taken - I am actually pleased that this post might show you guys with more freedom what you stand to lose if you don't fight it.

jsid-1256738589-614361  Sendarius at Wed, 28 Oct 2009 14:03:09 +0000

Oops, that's serial NUMBER.

jsid-1256748715-614391  Stephen R at Wed, 28 Oct 2009 16:51:55 +0000

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