JS-Kit/Echo comments for article at http://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2008/10/quote-of-election-cycle.html (28 comments)

  Tentative mapping of comments to original article, corrections solicited.

jsid-1222962008-597266  Markadelphia at Thu, 02 Oct 2008 15:40:08 +0000

OK, let me get this straight. The media is to blame for the answers Sarah Palin gave in the interviews?

So much for your non victim culture, Kevin, as well as people taking responsibility for themselves.


jsid-1222962566-597268  Kevin Baker at Thu, 02 Oct 2008 15:49:26 +0000

No, Mark, the media is not to blame for the answers Sarah Palin gave in the interviews. The media is to blame for not giving equal scrutiny to the things Joe Biden says. The media is to blame for lying about what Palin was or was not responsible for - you did read the link, right? This is about the "Sarah Palin rape-kit" myth being published now by the Boston Globe and repeated by Jon Stewart.

This is about the media looking for anything, anything that will make Palin look bad, while one or two outlets at most look into Rezko, Ayers, Annenberg, the Joyce Foundation, the background of how Obama won election to the Senate by eliminating his competition in true Chicago-style politics (Change we can Believe In!)

But you can't see that, because the evil KKKorporate-owned media must be right-wing!

You are precisely what Yuri Bezmenov described.


jsid-1222963296-597270  Markadelphia at Thu, 02 Oct 2008 16:01:36 +0000

"not giving equal scrutiny to the things Joe Biden says"

Well, my paper had the FDR TV thing in it for a couple of days and they talked about it, and ran the clip, a bunch of times on MSNBC, Fox, and CNN. Conservative pundits were all over the place laughing at him on these networks as well they should. It was wrong on a number of levels.

I did read the link and it was the first time I had ever heard the story and I watch and read a lot of news. There have been a lot of stories that have come out of Wasilla and I don't believe all of them. I've heard all of the stories about Obama too and find it all to be a part of the media circus. Your knee jerk reaction is think the media favors Obama but I've seen an awful lot on that list you mentioned not to mention the OJ like coverage of Reverent Wright.

To me, the most disturbing Wasilla story is the book banning thing. What books were they? Does anyone know? I know there was a fake list for awhile but I shudder at what a President Palin might do in regards to information. Would we only be allowed to read things that represent "the basic values of Americanism, American patriotism."

More importantly, who would define that?


jsid-1222964140-597271  Kevin Baker at Thu, 02 Oct 2008 16:15:40 +0000

I've had enough.

Would somebody please slap this deluded idiot down on the topic of Palin "banning books"? I've got actual paying work to do.

Isn't it a school day Mark? Shouldn't you be filling soft skulls with knowledge?

Oh, hell. Here. Ten seconds of searching found this (a PDF file.)

Quote: "We at the City of Wasilla have received many emails and requests for information about “banned or censored” books at the Wasilla Library while former Mayor Palin was in office. We have no records of any books being “banned or censored” ever."

Read the whole thing.

Not that it will change your mind, as Bezmenov so perfectly described.

Mark, in remembrance of Paul Newman's passing, let me say "What we have here is failure to communicate." You're not reaching us. We're not reaching you. You are, alone, the best illustration of just how divided this country has become. You are the result of 100 years of what Bezmenov described as "demoralization" - "active measures." And about half the country, I fear, is like you.

We're now in the destabilization phase, as far as I can tell, and the crisis phase isn't far off, again insofar as I can tell.

Even Teddy Kennedy knows it.


jsid-1222965429-597274  Unix-Jedi at Thu, 02 Oct 2008 16:37:09 +0000

OK, let me get this straight. The media is to blame for the answers Sarah Palin gave in the interviews?

The strawman....

So much for your non victim culture, Kevin, as well as people taking responsibility for themselves.

...And ... there's the strawman set on fire.

When are you going to take responsibility for lying in the prior threads? Or are you just claiming that you don't believe in personal responsibility, so you can walk away?


jsid-1222965951-597275  Unix-Jedi at Thu, 02 Oct 2008 16:45:51 +0000

Your knee jerk reaction is think the media favors Obama but I've seen an awful lot on that list you mentioned not to mention the OJ like coverage of Reverent Wright.

What did they cover about Rev. Wright? Specifically? I'd ask you more specifics, but you'd Google them and lie about knowing them. So you tell me what they did cover. Be comprehensive in your answer, it will be compared to the facts.

To me, the most disturbing Wasilla story is the book banning thing.

Which was false. Which you know is false, but you'll accept it anyway.

Would we only be allowed to read things that represent "the basic values of Americanism, American patriotism."

As in Obama under the "fairness doctrine?"

Palin's proven herself to be even handed. Obama claims he'll be.
Watch this video. Notice Obama's utter failures to deal with reasonably easy questions, and how mad he gets at the audience as he flails?
You think that's an evenhanded and fair executive?


jsid-1222968947-597279  DirtCrashr at Thu, 02 Oct 2008 17:35:47 +0000

As pointed out in an update, Jon Stewart repeated the lie on the Daily Show further blurring the line between satire/news/rumor/fiction - and making it therefore "True" to every under-30 something soft-skull feelie.


jsid-1222969044-597280  DirtCrashr at Thu, 02 Oct 2008 17:37:24 +0000

Oh, the lie about the rape-kits. Not that it will be anything more than a distinction without a difference to Dolph Markovitch.


jsid-1222970651-597284  Russell at Thu, 02 Oct 2008 18:04:11 +0000

"book banning thing"

Epic. Fail.


jsid-1222976125-597288  DJ at Thu, 02 Oct 2008 19:35:25 +0000

"I've had enough.

"Would somebody please slap this deluded idiot down on the topic of Palin "banning books"? I've got actual paying work to do."


So, Kevin, how is that anvil, anyway?


jsid-1222976210-597289  DJ at Thu, 02 Oct 2008 19:36:50 +0000

It's not just epic, Russell, it's typical. It's just the same old shit in a different thread.


jsid-1222976909-597290  Russell at Thu, 02 Oct 2008 19:48:29 +0000

You are right, DJ.

Facts are clearly meaningless unless they conform a preconceived narrative. All too human of a response.

But what both amazes and disgusts me is Marky's unwilling to admit when his 'argument' has been taken apart six ways from Sunday.

And this book banning lie is a prime example of facts getting in the way of the narrative, facts that are readily available from multiple sources with the merest effort of a Google search.

I doff my hat in respect for you and U-J for staying on target with him.


jsid-1222978901-597293  Markadelphia at Thu, 02 Oct 2008 20:21:41 +0000

"Isn't it a school day Mark? Shouldn't you be filling soft skulls with knowledge?"

I'll always make time for you, Kevin :)

As for the book banning thing, it's true. She did not succeed but she did try.

"While Sarah was mayor of Wasilla, she tried to fire our highly respected city librarian because the librarian refused to consider removing from the library some books that Sarah wanted removed. City residents rallied to the defense of the city librarian and against Palin's attempt at out-and-out censorship, so Palin backed down and withdrew her termination letter. People who fought her attempt to oust the librarian are on her enemies list to this day."

http://www.crosscut.com/politics-government/17341

"What did they cover about Rev. Wright?"

I saw the clips from his speech "God Damn America" etc. ad naseum on all of the networks. His entire speech in DC was covered live. Photos of him marrying Michelle and Barack. It was pretty clear they were connecting the two men and selling the idea that Obama was an "America Hater."

"Palin's proven herself to be even handed. "

Uh....what?

"Facts are clearly meaningless unless they conform a preconceived narrative."

I knew nothing about Sarah Palin until I read the link above. Read it. It's pretty even handed. What facts am I missing? She tried to have books removed from the library. Why?


jsid-1222979921-597294  Adam at Thu, 02 Oct 2008 20:38:41 +0000

Ok, Mark. You found an article someone wrote. Congratulations.

So, while you're finding things, find something that actually states verifiable facts.

Let's start with:
1) A list of the books to be banned, and accompanying proof thereof.


jsid-1222980544-597295  Yosemite Sam at Thu, 02 Oct 2008 20:49:04 +0000

I can do the he said/she said as well:

"Alaska Mom says:
Just a quick couple of points that may want to make any thinking person dig further; I’m sure all the details are available online in various places, since Ms. Kilkenny chose not to back up her “facts” with documentation.

She mentions the growth of the City budget during Sarah’s administration, without mentioning the accompanying growth of the City itself, or the surrounding Borough, much of which contracts with the City for services, and vice versa.

She is outraged over the letter requesting the librarian’s resignation, without mentioning that all of the other appointees from the previous administration received the same letter; SOP for incoming city managers, mayors, governors, presidents, etc.

Just a couple of surface problems that come to mind, yet remain unanswered by Ms. Kilkenny. I’m sure you can look at her laundry list of gripes against the woman she claims has hated her since 1996 and pick out a few of your own to research.

Oh, and as far as the Ebay/jet deal, there was an Ebay buyer at the $2.1 mil starting price, but the deal fell apart and the jet was listed again. Didn’t sell, later sold to a local for that same amount. And the only reason it was used to transport prisoners is because Frank Murkowski *thought* that might save him from voters’ wrath over the whole jet thing; the election was his to lose, and the jet -for many- was what lost it for him, the ‘last straw’ so to speak.

Right, wrong, or both, Ms. Kilkenny strikes me as a person with a grudge, getting her 15 minutes of fame. I don’t know this woman, and could be completely off-base about her motivation, but I’m certainly not going to take her “private e-mail” at face value"

Found here:

http://urbanlegends.about.com/b/2008/09/05/did-anne-kilkenny-really-say-those-things-about-sarah-palin.htm


jsid-1222981445-597296  Russell at Thu, 02 Oct 2008 21:04:05 +0000

Factcheck.org, a site I find has a mixed record that I believe tilts leftish, has this to say : http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html

"Actually, Palin never asked that books be banned; no books were actually banned; and many of the books on the list that Palin supposedly wanted to censor weren't even in print at the time, proving that the list is a fabrication."

But, ya know, that's just groupthink and so forth.


jsid-1222981813-597297  LabRat at Thu, 02 Oct 2008 21:10:13 +0000

I'd just like to add that a librarian acquaintance of mine has said she's been asked if she'd be willing to ban or censor books at every single job she's ever applied for- the question is a standard litmus test for the profession in general. (And the correct answer is "no".)


jsid-1222982054-597300  Russell at Thu, 02 Oct 2008 21:14:14 +0000

*Gasp* Labrat, you mean right wing groupthink has extended to librarians?!

When will this eviiiil be stopped!


jsid-1222996636-597310  Unix-Jedi at Fri, 03 Oct 2008 01:17:16 +0000

As for the book banning thing, it's true. She did not succeed but she did try.
You really will believe anybody about anything if they fit what you'd like to hear, won't you?

"While Sarah was mayor of Wasilla, she tried to fire our highly respected city librarian because the librarian refused to consider removing from the library some books that Sarah wanted removed.
Alleged. Weakly. Without any real backing of it. Were those books removed? Was the librarian fired? Oh, she was. Then reinstated.

City residents rallied to the defense of the city librarian and against Palin's attempt at out-and-out censorship,
Your spin, not backed by facts. Notice how you've gone from citing someone as evidence to stating without any doubt, that she was attempting to censor.
(Meanwhile you laugh at Obama's antigun record.)

so Palin backed down and withdrew her termination letter.
Wait! She listened to the people she was elected to represent?
And you're.. unhappy with this.

"What did they cover about Rev. Wright?"
I saw the clips from his speech "God Damn America" etc. ad naseum on all of the networks.

Bullshit. Flat bullshit. His clips were not aired on all the networks, much less "ad nauseam.
But, then, we knew you were a liar - still waiting. You might can ignore it, but I'm not going to just drop it and let you walk away from serial lies.

His entire speech in DC was covered live. Photos of him marrying Michelle and Barack. It was pretty clear
Again, stop right there once you start trying to synthesize an analysis. You will fail miserably.
Next, let's talk about who discussed Black Liberation Theology.
Which is: God intends to bring down the mighty and raise the lowly.

Gee, does THAT sound familiar at ALL?

BLT is religiously-based socialism.

Most of the best BLT texts are suddenly offline - as people started reading them. The "wrong" people, that is.
Show me discussion of BLT on major networks. (Well, to continue the discussion. You can't. They didn't, and won't.)
Let's hear people discussing the words not just of Wright, but of Cone, the originator.
Show me that. Because the "God Damn America" was only part of that. Funny that's *all* you can name of BLT. The very little bit that did get mentioned.

selling the idea that Obama was an "America Hater."
For almost 20 years, he's dutifully attended a church where exactly that was the Word Of the Day.

"Palin's proven herself to be even handed. "
Uh....what?


She rehired the librarian. She suspended without pay 2 months her staffer who tried to use her family ties with her estranged Brother in Law in negotiations with the head of the police. That's evenhanded. What's Obama's done that even begins to approach her proven evenhandedness?

"Facts are clearly meaningless unless they conform a preconceived narrative."
I knew nothing about Sarah Palin until I read the link above. Read it. It's pretty even handed.


So you read a link that's horribly one-sided, full of mistruths, even ones that you admit aren't factual (the list of books), but it's OK, that link's "even-handed".
And the New York Times is a corporation, so it's Right Wing. Right. And you're so good at critical thinking that you can teach it.

What facts am I missing? She tried to have books removed from the library. Why?
That at best, that's an allegation by people who do not like her, and it's not backed up by concrete facts.


jsid-1223016608-597319  Splodge Of Doom at Fri, 03 Oct 2008 06:50:08 +0000

I don't quite get all the fuss over Palin... Especially comparing Palin to Obama.

However Good/Evil she is, isn't she herself kindof a straw(wo)man?

If the Republicans win, MCAIN will be running the show!

How does he compare, what's his record???

N.B. I'm from the UK. Everything I hear has a heavy left wing slant, so I'm probably not getting the whole picture....


jsid-1223017278-597320  Unix-Jedi at Fri, 03 Oct 2008 07:01:18 +0000

Splodge:
The biggest fuss over Palin is she's energized the "base" and a number of people who aren't big fans of McCain.

Yes, she'll be the VP, and he'll be the one running the show. But she hopefully would have some input into the administration (particularly given that her place on the ticket has been responsible for the McCain pull dramatically increasing.)
But for the next election, (or if something happen to McCain during his term) she'll be the odds-on-favorite for the (R) nomination. Not a sure thing, but traditionally the VP is the favorite for the nomination.
As to McCain? Look at the bumper stickers Kev's been advertising:
http://freedomsight.net/?page_id=2523

McCain's not who I really want. (I was a big supporter of Fred Thompson - who's politics are almost identical to Palin's)
But by comparison.... There's really no choice.


jsid-1223034824-597325  Splodge Of Doom at Fri, 03 Oct 2008 11:53:44 +0000

Sort of a "lesser of two evils" kinda thing, then.

And the, uh.. Hope of Change in the future... *cough*

Sorry, I had to...

Thank you for clearing that up.


jsid-1223041725-597326  Last in line at Fri, 03 Oct 2008 13:48:45 +0000

I watched the debate with Markadelphia last night.


jsid-1223042472-597328  Sarah at Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:01:12 +0000

Watch this video. Notice Obama's utter failures to deal with reasonably easy questions, and how mad he gets at the audience as he flails?

Ouch.

Detractors on the left have questioned Palin's ability to face down dictators, but what about Obama? "Hold on. Uh uh uh ... Hold on. Wait. Now, hold on. I, I, I... Hold on." Yeah.


jsid-1223044793-597329  Unix-Jedi at Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:39:53 +0000

Splodge:

And the, uh.. Hope of Change in the future... *cough*

Sorry, I had to...


Heh. No problem. In fact, exactly.

(As opposed to the current Hope! Change! candidate, who's from the oldest political establishment, beholden to the old special interests, etc. etc. etc.)


jsid-1223045906-597332  Kevin Baker at Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:58:26 +0000

I watched the debate with Markadelphia last night.

I'm sorry.

Let me guess - Biden wiped the floor with Palin?


jsid-1223047248-597334  Unix-Jedi at Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:20:48 +0000

Let me guess - Biden wiped the floor with Palin?

I'd presume that would have been his reaction.
After all, he knows all that Constitutionalisty stuff and she doesn't.


jsid-1223052619-597339  Markadelphia at Fri, 03 Oct 2008 16:50:19 +0000

Kinda busy today but here was my take

http://markadelphia.blogspot.com/2008/10/post-mortem-on-vp-debate.html


 Note: All avatars and any images or other media embedded in comments were hosted on the JS-Kit website and have been lost; references to haloscan comments have been partially automatically remapped, but accuracy is not guaranteed and corrections are solicited.
 If you notice any problems with this page or wish to have your home page link updated, please contact John Hardin <jhardin@impsec.org>