JS-Kit/Echo comments for article at http://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2008/01/defensive-gun-use-failure.html (17 comments)

  Tentative mapping of comments to original article, corrections solicited.

jsid-1199370564-585742  karrde at Thu, 03 Jan 2008 14:29:24 +0000

For shame. Defensive gun use, and nobody dies.

The police didn't charge Mr. Merell with brandishing or unlawful detainment, either. I mean, he held the guy at gun-point!

In all seriousness, this was pretty good. It reminds me of a case much closer to my area, in which a young criminal was using an unloaded .22 for theft and carjacking.

Said young criminal was attempting a carjacking, when the victim pulled his concealed gun and killed the criminal.

Sometimes the criminals die, and sometimes they don't. Every time, a crime is stopped.

Final thought: there is one small advantage to carrying a revolver which can perform both single-action and double-action firing.

There's always a round in the chamber; the round in the chamber can be fired without first cocking hammer; the act of cocking the hammer can always be used as a threat if the guy isn't already aiming at you.

Of course, if you need more than 5 or 6 rounds fired, things get a little iffy while you're releasing the cylinder, ejecting the spent shells, and sliding fresh shells into place with a speed-loader.

jsid-1199372497-585743  karrde at Thu, 03 Jan 2008 15:01:37 +0000

Of course, after I think about it a little, a 1911 in Condition One is probably better than a revolver...

jsid-1199374519-585745  tkdkerry at Thu, 03 Jan 2008 15:35:19 +0000

+1 on karrde. The way the good guy approached it, it certainly could have been a failure if the perp had decided ti fight it out.

jsid-1199375960-585747  6Kings at Thu, 03 Jan 2008 15:59:20 +0000

Wow, as much as I am happy this turned out well, this was not at all good. That criminal is extremely lucky the good guy hesitated.

A while back there was a story about a farmer who was in back of a convenience store when two guys ran in and attempted to rob the store. He just pulled his gun and blew both of them away without a word.

THAT is how it is done. You should NEVER give even an option for the criminal to pull the trigger, swing the gun, or anything else. Once the bad guy pulls a gun, his life is essentially over and justifiably so.

In this case, the good guy was willing to risk his life in hope the bad guy wasn't desperate or skilled enough to counter. I would rather gamble in Vegas.

jsid-1199378455-585749  Elle at Thu, 03 Jan 2008 16:40:55 +0000

Since the object of self defense is only to stop the aggressor,and a robbery was stopped without a shot being fired-I would say well done indeed! Irregardless of the unorthodox methodology used it was a successful outcome.



jsid-1199384182-585755  staghounds at Thu, 03 Jan 2008 18:16:22 +0000

But the all

They could have just given him what he wanted and he would have left!

This VIGILANTE who TOOK THE LAW INTO HIS OWN HANDS by ESCALATING the situation endangered everybody!

jsid-1199389929-585758  Bilgeman at Thu, 03 Jan 2008 19:52:09 +0000

Lord that pilgrim took a hell of a big chance by aiming a handgun with an empty chamber at the goblin.

He's very,very lucky that the gambit worked.

And, no, you don't need to kill someone, you need to stop the threat.

Nothing more is justified.

jsid-1199390057-585759  -B at Thu, 03 Jan 2008 19:54:17 +0000

Don't let the Blogosphere's biggest serial troll anywhere near this. (Guy Cabot, cough) It's not fact you see, it's just anecdote by us uneducated, knuckle-dragging, backwoods, NRA members.

jsid-1199391060-585761  Peet at Thu, 03 Jan 2008 20:11:00 +0000

I posted to this article two days ago on Lott's blog: This guy (Merrell) shouldn't be carrying a firearm. If the perp had turned and shot...well...

When the suspect hesitated, Merrell racked the slide on his gun to load a round in the chamber,...

Not ready.


jsid-1199391071-585762  Kevin Baker at Thu, 03 Jan 2008 20:11:11 +0000

JadeGold is banned here, unless he's found a new ISP, then I'll have a whole new address block to ban.

jsid-1199391918-585763  Ahab at Thu, 03 Jan 2008 20:25:18 +0000

The Indy star isn't exactly a bastion of journalistic integrity.

According to IMPD, the guy actually had a revolver, which he cocked when the perp "hesitated". Not an auto with an empty chamber.

jsid-1199394374-585768  HKpistole at Thu, 03 Jan 2008 21:06:14 +0000

I agree with 6Kings.

that said, you gotta admire the man's balls...

jsid-1199401950-585777  Kristopher at Thu, 03 Jan 2008 23:12:30 +0000

Agreed. Making an arrest is inherently dangerous, especially for an untrained person.

If the use of deadly force is justified, you should just shut up and use deadly force.

jsid-1199414070-585788  Drew458 at Fri, 04 Jan 2008 02:34:30 +0000

I will cut Mr. Merrell a bit of slack on this one. We really don't know if he didn't have one chambered before the rack, but by golly the perp knew one was in there afterwards. I've talked to cops who've said that often just racking the slide on their Mossberg is enough to get the perp to give it up. It's worth dropping a round to get the sound.

jsid-1199445545-585798  Kevin P. at Fri, 04 Jan 2008 11:19:05 +0000

Do you have a link to Kellerman's definition of a successful DGU?

jsid-1199455189-585801  Kevin Baker at Fri, 04 Jan 2008 13:59:49 +0000

How about this one: "(R)esearch has shown that a gun kept in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a member of the household, or friend, than an intruder.(Arthur Kellermann and Donald Reay. "Protection or Peril? An Analysis of Firearm Related Deaths in the Home." The New England Journal of Medicine, vol. 314, no. 24, June 1986, pp. 1557-60.)"

That's how I read that "statistic."

jsid-1199599804-585909  Will at Sun, 06 Jan 2008 06:10:04 +0000

ejecting a live round is not a good thing. Besides throwing away ammo you might need, guns are designed to extract/eject empty brass. Live ammo is an invitation to a jam, since it is being done by hand, in a tense situation. There is also the potential for an uncontained detonation of the round from primer impact if the round doesn't make it out cleanly. Lots of fumbling on the range when commanded to clear the chamber in preparation for setting up for malfunction clearance drills, and that is not a stress situation like this robbery would be.
Carry it loaded, or don't carry.

BTW, if it was a wheelgun, cocking the hammer is about the dumbest thing you can do in such a situation. Truly stupid.

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