JS-Kit/Echo comments for article at http://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2006/01/and-there-will-be-chocolate-rivers-and.html (33 comments)

  Tentative mapping of comments to original article, corrections solicited.

jsid-1136957220-339235  geekwitha.45 at Wed, 11 Jan 2006 05:27:00 +0000

Bravo! Encore! Encore une fois!

jsid-1136961563-339250  Alcibiades at Wed, 11 Jan 2006 06:39:23 +0000

I'm still reading, but I had to mention this:

"nearly blasted in half" would indicate the man was nearly blasted,

"blasted nearly in half" would indicated he was blasted and almost in half.

jsid-1136962002-339251  Josh at Wed, 11 Jan 2006 06:46:42 +0000

To answer the last question you posed, Kevin; "What the hell happened to you?"

I'd wager college. Likely Berkeley, where he'd later meet his wife.

Great essay. I want more.

jsid-1136971327-339256  Robert at Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:22:07 +0000

Conservative folks just want and hope to be left alone. Liberals want to MAKE others do it THEIR way.
That's why liberals seem more energetic than conservatives. IMHO.

jsid-1136973162-339257  Keith at Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:52:42 +0000

Kevin, don't worry about the editing. That's a fine essay just as it stands.
Although---was the moron worth the effort?

jsid-1136973263-339258  ben at Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:54:23 +0000

Looks like the guy is simply trying to ignore the cold reality that there are a lot of evil people out there, and also that accidents happen. If the guns are evil, then the people don't need to be. Strange, though, since he's faced one of them down.

You could easily use his arguments to demand that automobiles be banned, among other things.

jsid-1136983732-339264  TexasRugerman at Wed, 11 Jan 2006 12:48:52 +0000

"I'd wager college. Likely Berkeley, where he'd later meet his wife."

Well, not just college, but Left Coast college. ;-) I am a senior at a Texas university, a journalism major to boot, and I am one of the most pro-gun people you'll ever find. Some in the newspaper office call me the resident right-winger. LOL...seriously, though, I think it'd be interesting to find out how many more like me are out there.

jsid-1136987797-339273  Mike Y at Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:56:37 +0000

"...Although---was the moron worth the effort?"

Yes, the moron is worth the effort. Unfortunately, I seriously doubt he will be exposed to Kevin's essay.

I completely understand you being burned out. Please feel free to take a break, but do NOT quit outright. Heck, I work in the entertainment industry. Of the 18 years I've worked in this industry, I only can remember one other individual who will admit to being a conservative.

jsid-1136992027-339285  Sandi at Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:07:07 +0000

Mike, I agree. Worth the effort? You bet. Every Prog rant that goes unanswered gives the impression that they're "winning."

Nice work.

jsid-1136994523-339288  Kevin at Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:48:43 +0000

I read that Op-Ed piece last night and sent Mr. Fagan an e-mail asking if the world would be a better place if the physically strong could victimize the physically weak with impunity.

As usual, the guy has given little actual thought to the argument. The utopian "no one should need a gun" kumbaya mentality is alive and well in this guy.

Besides, he has HIS gun - why should you and I need ours, right? If he truly believed in his vision of utopia, he'd get rid of his gun and test his theory about sticks and bricks being better than bullets.


jsid-1137001256-339330  Sarah at Wed, 11 Jan 2006 17:40:56 +0000

Geez. Reading this, you'd think Fagin lived in Basin City. Seriously, he needs to take a break and sample the relative placidity of gun-happy Texas.

jsid-1137002390-339335  Josh at Wed, 11 Jan 2006 17:59:50 +0000

TexasRugerman; being one of the few pro-2A students at a Left Coast school, I know what you mean. There are many of us out there, but not in the CA university system.

My school newspaper was filled with the same type of vacuous, self-serving ideology as this op-ed piece. Subsequently, I wrote a "letter to the editor" piece to be published. It was never published. Nor was my request for sources answered. It seems that, as in this case, they were reaching more for a knee-jerk reaction from impressionable readers rather than opening an informed discourse. Typical.

jsid-1137003754-339345  DDO at Wed, 11 Jan 2006 18:22:34 +0000

I understand your fatigue as it is a lot more difficult to dig up facts than make them up.
I read this yesterday and approved and agreed with your fisking of this stupid editorial. Still something bothered me about this editorial that you hadn't covered. Finally it hit me just before I went to sleep.
I think you wasted a lot of time and energy fisking a piece of fiction!! I think Kevin has made up all of his experiences with guns. The "nearly blasted in half", the head blown off, the confrontion with the drug dealer, all strike me as false. There are other elements that ring this same bell. Reread the article and see if you don't hear those same notes.

jsid-1137003896-339346  Scott at Wed, 11 Jan 2006 18:24:56 +0000

Let's see. The guy used a gun to defend himself two times and still has the nerve to write something like this? I think the Napa State Hospital has a special room for him. He has a very specific case of cognitive dissonance. The question that I would ask of him is whether he would buy another gun if his life was again threatened. Even better, does he own one now? Hypocrite.

jsid-1137005160-339349  Joe Huffman at Wed, 11 Jan 2006 18:46:00 +0000

I read his piece the other day and just didn't have the energy to attempt what you did. As you point out nearly every sentence is either wrong, in conflict with other parts of his editorial, or assumes facts not in evidence. Thank you for putting the effort into it.

jsid-1137008862-339359  BobG at Wed, 11 Jan 2006 19:47:42 +0000

I am always amazed at the attitude that if all guns were to disappear, everyone would miraculously start obeying laws and getting along with one another, as if firearms were the root of all violence. Have these people EVER read a history book?
Have you read the novel 'Dies The Fire' by S.M Stirling? It has an interesting scenerio of a loss of technology, including firearms.

jsid-1137009813-339366  Kevin Baker at Wed, 11 Jan 2006 20:03:33 +0000

I haven't yet, but it's on my "get immediately" list, along with Scalzi's "Old Man's War." Barnes and Noble doesn't have either in stock at the local retail outlet.

Regarding the technology of firearms, read Those Without Swords Can Still Die Upon Them linked on the left column over there

< --------

I discuss the technology of personal weapons in some detail in it.

jsid-1137031890-339411  Kim du Toit at Thu, 12 Jan 2006 02:11:30 +0000

I'm with DDO,and I'm throwing the bullshit flag on this guy's reminiscing.

Looks like he was trying to get a little "cred" so that he didn't look like a total wussy who's never touched a gun.

Unless... he KNOWS that a gun saved his life (the .25 episode), but he STILL wants guns to disappear.

Either he's a liar, or a moron.

But thanks for the essay, because it's needed.

What you need to realize is that his type are losing. Despite all the anti-gun vitriol, more and more people are buying guns every year, and using them.

So screw these dicks. If they don't want to own a gun, let them sell their .25s.

jsid-1137032528-339412  TexasRugerman at Thu, 12 Jan 2006 02:22:08 +0000

"My school newspaper was filled with the same type of vacuous, self-serving ideology as this op-ed piece."

Indeed. That's why I am glad to be able to do what I do -- that is, get a different perspective in my college newspaper out there for the people to see instead of the same old emotion-driven tripe that organizations like Handgun Control peddle to the public, with willing assistance from the media. I penned a few pro-gun pieces last semester, and they all ran in the paper, but surprisingly enough, I saw no letters to the editor or to me personally on them. Perhaps that has something to do with living where I do. I always thought I was blessed to live in the Lone Star State...and seeing the types of restrictions on gun owners in other states, I believe it even more now. (Firearm Owner ID cards, outright handgun bans, registration, and the list goes on -- there is even a proposal in the MA Legislature, if I remember correctly, to require gun owners to carry $250,000 of insurance on each gun!)

jsid-1137063480-339437  Jay.Mac at Thu, 12 Jan 2006 10:58:00 +0000

Great job as always Kevin- keep up the good work!

jsid-1137076519-339455  markm at Thu, 12 Jan 2006 14:35:19 +0000

My BS detector started quivering before I got to the part about his defensive use of guns. Two family members were murdered, and another one standing next to a murder victim? It's certainly possible, but I know of only three groups where violence is that common: soldiers (only if there's a war on), SWAT team members, and criminals. Not accusing his family of being criminals, but either they're a real statistical fluke or he's lying.

jsid-1137081136-339466  PersonalResponsibility at Thu, 12 Jan 2006 15:52:16 +0000

Dollars to Donuts the guy is flat out lying about the childhood experiences and the shotgun story. This is a new tactic of the moonbats: to pose as a 'reformed' gun person who has 'seen the light'. It's horse-sh!t. Sadly, unless you want to make lying in print a capitol offense (the idea has merit) there's nothing we can do about these losers except buy another gun in the hope that we won't need it, and the realization that we very well might.

jsid-1137081174-339467  Rusticus at Thu, 12 Jan 2006 15:52:54 +0000

But what is truth but something that needs to be sacrificed for the Greater Good?

jsid-1137090848-339493  Cindi at Thu, 12 Jan 2006 18:34:08 +0000

Good job, Kevin. The hard work of using facts to back up one's argument is what is exhausting. The moonies don't even try, they just recite the myths using emotion.

Once in a while, I also get too tired to reason and fall back on the exasperated parent's response: I told you why fifty times already, I'm not telling you again, now shut up.

jsid-1137099845-339521  bud at Thu, 12 Jan 2006 21:04:05 +0000

Fagin uses the Marin county courthouse shooting as an argument *for* gun control? That's funny, since I've often quoted it as a perfect example of why gun control doesn't work.

The shotgun that used to blow the judges head off was legally purchased, and was traced to the purchaser within a day.

That person was a supporter of the group, was a personal friend of the perpertrator, publicly announced support for their goals, and did not surrender to the police, but instead, fled.

Right now, that person is living well off the California taxpayer. Not in jail, where she belongs, but rather as a well-known and frequently "honored" tenured faculty member at UCSC. Angela Davis is a poster child for all the issues with "gun control".

Anytime anyone starts yammering at me about gun registration, I illustrate my opposition to it with that story.

email is human readable - aloud

jsid-1137100673-339523  Kevin Baker at Thu, 12 Jan 2006 21:17:53 +0000

Now that's fascinating.

I need to research that. Thanks for the tip.

jsid-1137127085-339570  Curtis Stone at Fri, 13 Jan 2006 04:38:05 +0000

I think you wasted a lot of time and energy fisking a piece of fiction!!

I would agree. This is a typical piece by a gun banner. They tell the stories of themsleves using guns to lend credence to their point of view: "I'm just like you, I understand where you are coming from, I just want REASONABLE restrictions..."

It's a bunch of bunk. How about the description of the report of a .22 revolver as "the explosion in my ear". I don't think even an 8 year old (my kids fired .22's at that age as did I) would confuse the "crack" of a .22 with an "explosion". I also have serious reservations about the credibility of someone who claims to have justifiably used firearms in self-defense twice but doesn't think he (or anyone else) should have access to the self-defensive tools that he, himself has found necessary.

This is your typical Wolf in Sheep's Clothing scenario. "Trust me, I'm one of you"...(sound of chewing, swallowing and smacking of lips).

jsid-1137161872-339602  Nylarthotep at Fri, 13 Jan 2006 14:17:52 +0000

Excellent piece.

Don't get too tired, things like this are very helpful when discussing gun control. Every idea you have helps the rest of us consolidate their logic.

jsid-1137172902-339653  longrifleman at Fri, 13 Jan 2006 17:21:42 +0000

An excellent job as usual, but what are the chances that you could get the paper to print it as a rebuttal? The problem with things like this is you end up preaching to the choir. The people who really could benefit the most will never see it.

And I appreciate the effort you put in, and would allow you to take a small break but you can't quit. We need you too much.

jsid-1137173497-339660  Kevin Baker at Fri, 13 Jan 2006 17:31:37 +0000

"An excellent job as usual, but what are the chances that you could get the paper to print it as a rebuttal?"

Zero. Zilch. Nada.

Thanks for the kind words, though.

I did email Mr. Fagin with a link to the piece, though. No response. (No surprise.)

jsid-1137174592-339663  longrifleman at Fri, 13 Jan 2006 17:49:52 +0000

"Zero. Zilch. Nada."

That's what I thought. If I win the lottery this weekend, we'll run it as a paid ad. Let's see if they want money more that they support their ideology!

jsid-1137292229-339895  Andrew at Sun, 15 Jan 2006 02:30:29 +0000

Well done, sir!

jsid-1161487186-536737  Yuri Orlov at Sun, 22 Oct 2006 03:19:46 +0000


 Note: All avatars and any images or other media embedded in comments were hosted on the JS-Kit website and have been lost; references to haloscan comments have been partially automatically remapped, but accuracy is not guaranteed and corrections are solicited.
 If you notice any problems with this page or wish to have your home page link updated, please contact John Hardin <jhardin@impsec.org>