JS-Kit/Echo comments for article at http://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2003/10/not-with-bang-but-whimper-everybody.html (22 comments)

  Tentative mapping of comments to original article, corrections solicited.

jsid-1065547571-256373  Marc at Tue, 07 Oct 2003 17:26:11 +0000

Donald Luskin chronicles the lies and deceits of America's most dangerous liberal pundit on his blog. Today he describes how large the liberal cancer has grown and whether he should give up the fight. He ends by quoting the following dialogue from Casablanca:

"RICK: Had a close one, eh?

":LASZLO: Yes, rather.

"RICK: Don't you sometimes wonder if it's worth all this, what you're fighting for?

"LASZLO: We might as well question why we breathe. If we stop breathing, we'll die. If we stop fighting our enemies, the world will die."

The USA desperately needs a few Laszlo's.

jsid-1065547944-256375  Kevin Baker at Tue, 07 Oct 2003 17:32:24 +0000

But are we fighting? Or just "shining a light on the cockroaches" and then moving on?

jsid-1065548721-256374  John Moore (Useful Fools) at Tue, 07 Oct 2003 17:45:21 +0000

It isn't all that bad.

We win some, we lose some.

The only areas where there seems to be a ratchet is in court decisions and in the growth of government.

But ideological battles take a long, long time.

Look at some of our wins...

Republicans have majorities in the house and senate and control the white house - for the first time since the '50s.

Right wing talk radio is countering the biases and ignorance imparted by the educational system. So is Fox News. The high ratings these folks get is because of people perceiving the need.

The ratings of the major network news services, all of which are part of the left wing elite, are dropping and have been for decades.

Politicians at the national level now recognize an important third rail that they are afraid to touch: gun control. They know that many seats changed hands as a result of the gun control idiocies in the early Clinton years.

California is (hopefully) throwing out a corrupt governor, in total disgust at the completely democratic controlled state government. Sure, Arnold is far from the perfect conservative, but he's at least an incremental step.

America has fought two major battles in the War on Terrorism and won with such ease that the whole rest of the world is scared of us. The public strongly supports our military (which they did not after the Vietnam years).

We defeated the Evil Empire, in spite of the best efforts of the left in the US (see Anne Coulter's "Treason" for an exhaustive list of what the left did).

We now have competition in education in many states. In Arizona you can directly contribute a chunk of money to any qualifying *private* school (including religious ones) and get it back as a tax credit. This movement has caused competition in the public schools which has been significant.

I can understand bloggers burning out. I am posting less than in the past just out of pressure of work. But conservative and libertarian blogs have blown the whistle on the press in a way that hasn't happened since the domination of newspapers by citiwide monopolies and a uniform left-wing culture. And this stuff gets picked up, and is having an effect.

Pretty soon we will denounced as important members of Hillary's Vast Right Wing Conspiracy - not as individuals but as a movement.

I've been fighting these idiots online since the early '80s (Compuserve, then Usenet, then Compuserve again, then blogging). I don't know if it does much good, but it sure is a good way to get out the frustrations from reading all the idiocy of these folks.

Cheer up. On most fronts, we're winning and they're squirming.

Furthermore, imagine the number of academics who secretly resent the control of the current tenured left-wing boomers. These folks will take over as the boomers start retiring.

And look at the kids who are disgusted by the political correctness and racism (affirmative action/diversity movement/whatever stupidity they'll call it next). W

jsid-1065548798-256376  John Moore (Useful Fools) at Tue, 07 Oct 2003 17:46:38 +0000

...oops... the 3000 character limit bit me...

so against the spirit of the limit... continuing...

And look at the kids who are disgusted by the political correctness and racism (affirmative action/diversity movement/whatever stupidity they'll call it next). When my daughter's class saw what happened as they applied to colleges, saw lesser-qualified minority students get full scholarships into the best schools, saw a minority person get a National Merit designation with a score way below that of the others from the school - they all got quite an education. There weren't many liberals that day!

This is a multigenerational struggle. We just need to fight these guys enough to allow our nation to survive until the countertrend in the demographics arrives.

jsid-1065549924-256377  Kevin Baker at Tue, 07 Oct 2003 18:05:24 +0000

I'll take your first point: "Republicans have majorities in the house and senate and control the white house - for the first time since the '50s."

Given the fact that the Republicans as a party aren't as conservative as they were in the 50's, and the apparent fact that they aren't willing to do battle with the (minority) Democrats (see the judicial nominations, for example) what good does that do us?

Right Wing radio and TV: Again, shining the light, but the cockroaches just come back.

Dropping ratings: That's people disconnecting from the political process - a net win for the leftists.

Gun control: Delayed, not defeated? That depends, I think, on what the Supreme Court does with Silveira.

California: Ahnold gets elected, and can't fix the problems. He's got to fight a Democratic House, Senate, and judiciary. As someone said, it's like fighting to be captain of the Titanic.

War on Terror: Quagmire! Quagmire! $87 Billion! $87 Billion! No WMD's! No Exit Strategy! We won the war, but the peace is still under contention here.

We did cause hasten the collapse of the USSR, but Communism lives on in China - and we're shoveling them $$ by the container-shipload.

I am not heartened.

jsid-1065551584-256379  JadeGold at Tue, 07 Oct 2003 18:33:04 +0000

The conservative ideology is largely based on lies, so it should be of no surprise that it is doomed to failure.

Let's consider one such lie: smaller Govt. Each and every Repug will swear up and down he or she is in favor of smaller Govt. Yet, these very same Repugs control the WH, the House, the Senate. The result: bigger Govt. Far bigger than under our last democratically-elected President.

And guess what? It's always been that way. Under Bush I, under Reagan, under Ford, under Nixon. The only real question is why do Repugs continue to believe in this myth?

Ironically, they believe--as most Repugs do--that rules apply to others and not to them. IOW, they're in favor of everyone else cutting Govt. spending but, gee whiz, we really need that big Govt. project in our district. It provides jobs. Helps local businesses.

This is but one small example.

Our conduct WRT Iraq is another.

jsid-1065551953-256381  Kevin Baker at Tue, 07 Oct 2003 18:39:13 +0000

"The conservative ideology is largely based on lies."

Pot? Meet kettle.

jsid-1065553308-256382  Chris Muir at Tue, 07 Oct 2003 19:01:48 +0000

I'm just getting started...if anything, it's that PC crap that's on the way out.They don't have all the media anymore.

jsid-1065568127-256384  JadeGold at Tue, 07 Oct 2003 23:08:47 +0000

Think about it, Kevin. What Repug has ever not run on a message of smaller Govt? And what have the results been?

Dubya's no different and he has the Congress in his pocket. Yet, Bill Clinton gave you the results you say you want.

You guys always make noises about 'getting Govt. out of people's lives.' Yet, the conservative movement seems terribly interested in what people are doing in their bedrooms, what they're reading and listening to, etc. John Ashcroft, anyone?

jsid-1065570036-256385  Kevin Baker at Tue, 07 Oct 2003 23:40:36 +0000


Politicians LIE. Republican, Democrat, doesn't matter. They all lie, because if they tell the truth, they can't get elected.

You seem to think I'm all happy with Dubya and team, and I'm not. I've said elsewhere that I'll vote for Bush in 2004 because the choice will be between a wedgie (Bush) and castration (whoever the Democrat nominee is.)

I'll grant you that the Republicans are just as happy with Big Government as the Democrats, they're just usually a little slower about it.

My problem with the Republicans? They say, they're conservative, but they're not. My problem with the Democrats? They say they're not socialists, but they are. My problem with both parties? They're both Statists. One is just Statist Lite.

That "Pot - meet kettle" comment was perfectly serious.

jsid-1065570736-256386  Kevin Baker at Tue, 07 Oct 2003 23:52:16 +0000


I appreciate your effort to shine the light on the cockroaches (Jebus knows I do).

But my question is, what can we do to get rid of them? Or at least reduce the number of 'em? They control the education system, and are cranking out "Jaywalking" stars in ever increasing numbers. I'm not sure that we haven't reached a tipping point where, like lemmings, we're on the way toward the ledge.

jsid-1065572415-256387  Chris Muir at Wed, 08 Oct 2003 00:20:15 +0000

Why? Because we can.

Our forefathers had it a hella lot tougher.

By the way, your 'pot meet kettle' was damn good.Perhaps you should write some toons,man.

jsid-1065574638-256388  al at Wed, 08 Oct 2003 00:57:18 +0000

I reject the doom and gloom attitude because I see things quite differently. Yes, socialist creep is inevitable. BUT there are signs everywhere that the pendulum is swinging the other way.

People are fed up with the media. Other avenues are opening. Eventually one will come along that really is "fair and balanced" because that's what the people want.

People are fed up with liberal bastions of academia. Professors are whining publicly because there is no real defense. Things are changing.

People are fed up with open immigration at the cost of security. California will repeal the drivers license for illegals policy next year.

People are fed up with run-away spending. Here in TN we fought off an income tax and it will be darn tough to pass it next year. California taxes will go down after Arnold is in. Bush is cutting taxes.

People are fed up with gun grabbers. It cost Gore the election in Y2K. The GOA and Armed Females of America and Second Amendment Sisters are the response to the NRA that compromises our rights away.

Minorities are fed up with Democrats taking them for granted. Republicans are making inroads in the Latino community and the Black community.

Add in the example that Europe sets for us and the people can see the error of our ways before we make them. France is going to scrape the 35-hour work week. France and Germany is raising taxes because they have to support the entitlement system that their welfare system has put into place, yet they are still slashing benefits.

Finally, 9/11 woke up a lot of people.

Things are changing. Not all for the better, but hey - if it was easy they wouldn't call it politics.

jsid-1065578513-256389  Kevin Baker at Wed, 08 Oct 2003 02:01:53 +0000

Alpha: "Yes, socialist creep is inevitable. BUT there are signs everywhere that the pendulum is swinging the other way."Um, what? If the "pendulum is swinging the other way" then socialst creep is not inevitable. But let's touch, briefly, on that pendulum. That's one of the problems I have. That oscillation worries me. I can see us once again going McCarthy (and yes, I do understand he was right - but his methods were un-American) - the danger to the Constitution comes no only from the Left.

"People are fed up with the media."

Only a small percentage. The majority of middle America really doesn't care.

"Other avenues are opening. Eventually one will come along that really is "fair and balanced" because that's what the people want."

Yes, they are - but the people don't really care, by and large. Do some research and see just how many people actually watch the news or read a newspaper.

"People are fed up with liberal bastions of academia."

Not most people. Those that are represent a significant minority. They've been trained that way.

"People are fed up with open immigration at the cost of security."

THERE you may have a point. After all, it affects most people directly in their wallets.

"People are fed up with gun grabbers."

Only gun owners, and not all of us. But those of us who care make up a large single-issue voting bloc, which is the only reason we get political attention. Again, most people really don't care much.

"Minorities are fed up with Democrats taking them for granted."

I've heard rumblings of this, but have yet to see any evidence. Miguel Estrada being the most recent example.

I'm not doom-and-gloom yet, but I'm not wearing rosy glasses either.

jsid-1065580161-256390  AlphaPatriot at Wed, 08 Oct 2003 02:29:21 +0000

I don't care that "most people" aren't fed up because "most people" don't care one way or the other, nor do they vote.

BTW, Andrew Sullivan has an interesting post on this topic (second item).

jsid-1065580938-256391  Martin M at Wed, 08 Oct 2003 02:42:18 +0000

Your comments about the futility of it all remind me of the last words of Simon Bolivar, the South American revolutionary leader, after his revolutions collapsed into dictatorships, "I have plowed the sea." It felt to him as if he had made no impression at all.
I have to keep breathing, too, but that doesn't mean that my last breath was futile. Each one is progress.

jsid-1065581855-256392  Kevin Baker at Wed, 08 Oct 2003 02:57:35 +0000

Well, Martin, I haven't said it's futile. I've said I haven't seen much evidence of change for the good.

I'm still hopeful, but not optimistic.

jsid-1065643129-256409  mike hollihan at Wed, 08 Oct 2003 19:58:49 +0000

Kevin, you have to remember that even the Founding Fathers expected the American experiment to fail within their children's lifetimes. That its still recognisable today is fantastic. Our country today is on the road we started down just before the Civil War. It's going to take at least that long to get back, if we can.

John Adams said that democratic government requires a moral people. Otherwise, you get folks who will vote for whoever will give them a share of the public treasury. We need to find a way to strengthen our morality first. That's gonna be tough.

Don't despair because you won't live to see the dream. Rejoice that you did your part to bring us closer to it. :-)

jsid-1065644276-256410  Kevin Baker at Wed, 08 Oct 2003 20:17:56 +0000

OK, somebody besides Bill Whittle isn't bitching. :-)

jsid-1065644423-256411  JadeGold at Wed, 08 Oct 2003 20:20:23 +0000

Saying politicians lie isn't inaccurate. But it does nothing to address the real point that a central tenet of conservatism is smaller government. Yet, no conservative politician has ever succeeded--or tried--to make the Govt. smaller.

That's but one example of why conservatism is based upon lies.

Civil liberties are another; Repugs are always big on feigning respect for the Constitution--but only on those issues with which they agree. And as evidenced by low levels of conservative support by minorities--it's pretty evident conservatives believe constitutional protections only fully extend to white males, preferably Christian white males.

jsid-1065646501-256414  Kevin Baker at Wed, 08 Oct 2003 20:55:01 +0000

Oh for Jebus's sake, Jade. If you actually believe that I've got your age pegged as (damned HTML coding!) less than 24. And probably a college student. Liberal arts undergrad. Journalism?

You think liberals are angels?

"Repugs are always big on feigning respect for the Constitution--but only on those issues with which they agree."

Snide comment: "So DemocRATS don't even bother to feign respect at all?"

But I won't go there. You just illustrated STATISM - and it's the disease that infects politicians, regardless of party, defined as: "People who want to tell you how to run your life."

"And as evidenced by low levels of conservative support by minorities--it's pretty evident conservatives believe constitutional protections only fully extend to white males..."

No, that evidence indicates that minorities have been sold on victimization - initially deserved, but now clung to with a fervor despite evidence that would lead a rational person to conclude that they're being lied to.

I'm pretty conservative, Jade, and I believe that Constitutional protections extend to everybody, regardless of race, religion (or lack thereof), and sexual orientation. But equality means equality not "special dispensation for the ancestrally oppressed."

You've got to readjust your worldview. There's a whole lot of "Southpark Republicans" out there who just don't seem to register on your radar.

You illustrate Charles Krauthammer's position in sterling form: "To understand the workings of American politics, you have to understand this fundamental law: Conservatives think liberals are stupid. Liberals think conservatives are evil."

jsid-1066332895-256483  Jay Random at Thu, 16 Oct 2003 19:34:55 +0000

Just one thing I've got to get off my chest-- in the future, please avoid the use of the possessive phrase "our children" unless you're strictly referring to children of your own. This particular liberal shibboleth just rouses my ire something fierce.

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